Buckle up, kids! This week, J.T. joins the boys for a ride wilder than a Super Bowl halftime show. Workday, Justworks, and Meta are handing out pink slips like it's a clearance sale, all in the name of AI.
Meanwhile, Phenom is beefing up its tech and in what might be the most 2024 news ever, OnlyFans is getting into AI models (yep, you read that right). Because why deal with human drama when you can have an algorithm do the job?
Oh, and the U.S. military? Why is military recruiting up, especially when we have a Drunken Frat Boy running US defense? Unfortunate insights that you won't need GPS to follow.
🚀 Hot takes, brutal honesty, and the best dad jokes money can’t buy—this one’s got it all.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION Joel (00:29.187)
Yeah, it's the podcast that's bigger than cable TV and or drugs. Hi kids. It's the chat and cheese podcast. I'm your cohost, Joel Pennyless Cheeseman.
Chad (00:39.854)
This is Chad, violets are blue, so wash.
J.T. (00:42.799)
And this is JT, why I'm the only person dressed for the holiday, O'Donnell.
Joel (00:47.491)
this episode, Phenom says hold my beer, Zip Search calls it quits, and OnlyFans more like OnlyBots. Am I right? Let's do this.
Chad (00:57.166)
All right.
Chad (01:01.408)
Yeah, so JT remembered it was Valentine's Day, which is nice and I don't have anything hot pink to wear or I probably would have done that.
Joel (01:05.327)
Valentine's Day.
Yeah, that's true.
J.T. (01:10.467)
because you gentlemen are busy buying amazing gifts for your wives that you were so busy you forgot to dress, right? That's what we're gonna go with. There we go.
Chad (01:16.104)
Exactly. no, I think the amazing trips, let's just say that gifts trips. Yeah. Yeah, just bounced around through Spain. So I think I think we're good. I think we're really good. We'll have a good time.
J.T. (01:21.706)
okay.
Joel (01:23.567)
trips. Yeah, there's a, I'll put it, I'll put a bow on the pool in my backyard that I thought I didn't want. I have a five, I have a five year pass on a romantic. Nice. Yes. No, I obviously that's, yeah. Yeah. Well nothing signed, but I'm sure it's, it's somewhere somewhere. What a, so JT you're obviously in the Valentine's day mode. Like,
Chad (01:30.956)
Hahaha!
Uhhh, I'm sure that'll work.
J.T. (01:38.702)
I love it.
Chad (01:39.342)
Is there an agreement behind that as you signed that?
Hahaha
Joel (01:52.569)
Does your husband typically do romantic things? What should?
J.T. (01:55.567)
Oh gosh, no, he's a pilot, he's flying, I'm solo. Yeah, so I gotta, you know, I'm just celebrating by myself. Take that where you want to, take it where you want to, yeah. There you go, yeah.
Joel (02:02.241)
Hey? Who, who do you?
Chad (02:04.206)
Better than no celebration at all? Better than no celebration at all. That's right. Make sure that you have plenty of batteries. You'll be good to go.
Joel (02:08.941)
Who do you love more than yourself? You know what I'm saying? Who do you love more than yourself?
Yeah. Well, we had the Super Bowl. Let's talk about that a little bit. Takeaways, Chad, thoughts?
J.T. (02:15.247)
And here we go.
Chad (02:20.035)
Yes.
Chad (02:25.154)
Yeah, well, first and foremost, let's talk about the prediction, shall we? So Joel's prediction, Joel's prediction, Kansas City, 34, Philadelphia, 35. Man. Chad's prediction, Kansas City, 23, Philadelphia, 42. that was good, that was good. Kansas, the end score, 22, 40. I was only three points off in total, in total, so.
Joel (02:28.988)
I was setting you up on that one,
Joel (02:35.843)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (02:50.111)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's good. That's good.
Chad (02:54.047)
But I'm gonna tell you right now the winner of that game Philadelphia's front four they didn't blitz the entire game and the homes had no chance no chance. It was it was amazing. It was amazing
Joel (02:58.137)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (03:07.491)
Yeah. Yeah. It was a pretty bad game. not one of the more memorable games. I just couldn't believe how overwhelmed my homes was and just how dominant that defense, defense was. couldn't help but think how much I'd rather be watching Josh Allen and or Lamar Lamar deal with that. Like it just, yeah, it was, it's, it's, the halftime show people are raving. I don't know. I'm too old. I don't get it. the commercials.
Chad (03:20.109)
It was pretty amazing.
Chad (03:35.213)
I loved it.
Joel (03:37.391)
kind of man. I mean, I was, I'm kind of, I'm kind of down on the best part of the best part.
Chad (03:41.614)
Did you have a favorite commercial about you, JT? Did you have a favorite commercial?
J.T. (03:45.709)
Yeah, Channing Tatum. Anything Channing Tatum. Yeah, yeah, I Don-
Chad (03:48.097)
go figure. Go figure. Yeah. I'm like a hot dude.
Joel (03:50.727)
So that's not a sexist comment, is it? It's not a sexist. Yeah. Yeah, you are. You are. mean, for me, like I know I'm with Chad, like anything that is anything that pulls on the heartstrings with fathers and daughters, like is a winner. And you had the Audi commercial a years ago, Google, Google brought it this year with the dad. Like it was kind of employment related. was updating his resume and the experience was based on his daughter. And at the end, she goes to college. It's very
J.T. (03:54.925)
I'm on the right show, right? Yeah.
Chad (03:56.344)
Might as well, might as well.
Joel (04:19.587)
Very cliche, but I teared up. got choked up. So I'll go with Google as a good commercial. But by and large, the Duncan was kind of funny. mean, Billacheck's girlfriend, 23 year old girlfriend in that commercial was kind of funny. That was kind of a nice little dag. And then the Meg Ryan, Billy Crystal reunion commercial, that as an ex. that's pretty good.
Chad (04:42.764)
That for me, mean Harry Met Sally, that is iconic as it was and then you make it into a Hellman's Mayo commercial. I that even made it more funny. But the best line, yeah, no shit, right? I'll have what she's having. I'll have what she's having. But the best line I think was from Go Daddy, the commercial with Walter Goggins. said, if your goggles ain't Goggins, they don't belong on your noggins. It's just stupid.
Joel (04:52.055)
Yeah, I don't know if it made helmets more appealing, Orgasms and helmets.
Chad (05:11.726)
Stupid shit!
Joel (05:14.799)
$8 million for 30 seconds. I remember it when it was a million in the nineties and people freaked out. Now it's eight million.
Chad (05:23.35)
Yeah, back in the monster days, man, it was it wasn't quite that expensive.
Joel (05:25.345)
Yeah. The best, the best part. don't know if you saw this John rocker, who I think Chad will know, very, a very abrasive pitcher from the nineties, early 2000s. So it's some really nasty, nasty, nasty stuff. Anyway, he apparently got into it with my home senior Patrick's dad who played baseball and apparently knows him anyway. They got in sort of a scuffle, and Barstool sports who does a box it's called rough and rowdy and they have idiots fight each other.
Chad (05:29.742)
Mm hmm. Jesus. Yeah.
Chad (05:35.416)
Total piece of shit.
Chad (05:52.734)
Mm. God.
Joel (05:54.553)
Well, apparently rocker and my homes have agreed to go in the ring and fight on the rough and rowdy, in a, in a month or so. So that that'll be, that'll be probably more entertaining than, than the super bowl. see. John rocker. He's still on Royds by the way. Rocker is still juicing like a mother. That guy is all blown up.
Chad (06:07.886)
Yeah. It would be like another Tyson, Jake Paul fight.
Chad (06:13.752)
Big surprise, big surprise. Idiots. All right, let's hit some shout outs. Go ahead.
J.T. (06:15.949)
Yeah, so my help, yeah, let's go, let's go.
Joel (06:19.255)
All right, let's let's get to some shout outs.
Shout outs as you know, is sponsored by our friends up North. Kiara that's smarter, easier texting, by the way, four nations in hockey, Canada one, beat Sweden in a overtime match, yesterday, but I'm going to, it's a thing. Yeah. There's six nations rugby and now hockey's doing four nations, Finland, Sweden, Canada, and the U S the, you know, the heartbeat of hockey, the U S, that's where all the money is though. Okay. So I'm going to, I'm to start off, the shout outs and, and I'm, I'm inspired by JT.
Chad (06:25.384)
It is.
Chad (06:35.992)
Didn't even know that was a thing. No clue.
Chad (06:44.206)
No clue.
Joel (06:55.383)
It's Valentine's day. This show drops on Valentine's day. know, maybe, maybe you're, you know, you're, you're, you're kind of, you know, time is running out. You haven't come up with a gift. You haven't come up with something for that special someone. Well, your boy here is, is here to help. Okay. Now, now typically something like a heart shaped pizza from pizza hut would be, would be perfectly fine. Yeah. The heart shaped pizza for pizza hut is awesome. that's guaranteed to get you some love and, but, but I'm gonna.
Chad (07:17.464)
That's your go-to. That's your go-to.
Joel (07:24.879)
I'm going to up your game everybody. Okay. Feel free to call me Cupid because I have the killer option for that special someone. It's called a White Castle everybody. That's right. White Castle one day a year. They have white, they have like table service. They have white cloth. They have really nice table settings. You got the salt shaker and the pepper shaker, all this stuff. They've been doing this for 34 years and they, they, for one day they transfer the White Castle to the Love Castle. You know what I'm saying? So
We're talking special decor, host a seating. They're even on open table. And yes, I checked just cause I was curious. They're all booked in my area here in Northern Indiana. and don't forget the strawberry cheesecake dessert on a stick, Chad, if you go, if you go to white castle, nothing says slide next to me, honey, like a plate full of sliders. So my shout out goes out to white castle.
Chad (08:02.638)
Imagine that.
Woo.
Chad (08:19.82)
Yeah, Joel loves that because he can do the the Dutch oven version of Valentine's Day later that night.
Joel (08:30.603)
It would make for an interesting after hours going to White Castle. Good luck topping that one, JT.
Chad (08:34.762)
horrible. That's horrible. JT, get us out of this. Jesus.
J.T. (08:38.543)
So my shout outs to Anthropic, who announced that they now have a job seeker rules of engagement. Let's call it that. They've let job seekers know that they cannot use AI when applying to their jobs, even though they're one of the largest AI companies in the world. One of the largest in the world. They have made it clear that they do not want you answering their questions using AI and that
Chad (09:00.332)
The AI company, okay, okay.
J.T. (09:08.139)
if you are caught, you will be banned from ever being considered. I actually think this is going to be a beginning of a trend, depending on, I've talked to so many recruiters and companies who are just slammed, right, with bots and people who are irrelevant and they don't know how to handle this. And so, you know, them making this announcement, don't use AI when you apply to our AI company. I wonder how many more people are going to fall in line.
Joel (09:27.233)
Is this the FUD strategy, like put fear, uncertainty, and doubt in the heads of a job seeker and like scare them into not using it? Because I don't know, tracking that would be a real bitch. I don't know if that's reasonable. There you go.
J.T. (09:37.921)
Yep, it speaks to the death of the resume though. I'm going to keep harping on that. Like what's the point at this point? Everybody makes up resumes so badly that, you know, we're going to see some amazing tech this year just to get rid of all of that. But yeah, yeah, new guidelines by the biggest AI companies in the world. Don't use AI.
Chad (09:42.286)
Ha
Chad (09:47.522)
Yes.
Joel (09:56.481)
It's a trend. It's a trend. I believe it. I believe it.
Chad (09:58.272)
Amazing, Anthropic probably has a shitty applicant tracking system, that's why. Shout out to, yeah, not yet. I haven't gone there yet. My shout out is to Matt Baxter, CEO and Chairman of Wedge HRY, because he sent me, look at this, kids. yeah, look at that. That's Valentine's Day right there. There it is.
Joel (10:04.079)
Did anyone check and see who it is? Okay.
J.T. (10:04.399)
Yeah
J.T. (10:22.061)
He knows how to dress for Valentine's Day. That's Valentine's Day. Yeah.
Joel (10:23.329)
If you're not watching on YouTube, thank your lucky stars because...
Chad (10:27.79)
Yeah, yeah, so he sent me a little something. I wanted to share with fans. This is this is a calendar Oh, yeah, there's there's 12 of these. Yeah 12 You got to take a gander it is it is amazing and All the way to Christmas. Oh, that's the way that you give a present kids Shout out to Matt Matt Baxter for beating cheeseman to the punch, which means the only one thing a Joel cheeseman
Joel (10:35.871)
Ugh.
Chad (10:56.558)
2026 Speedo calendar is coming out. can see it happening. Get ready. Shout out to Matt Baxter. Way to push it, man. Way to push it.
Joel (10:58.787)
No. No.
Joel (11:06.447)
So I have a funny side story to this. Last year, two years ago, I bought my wife a dog pooping calendar. It's just pictures of dogs taking poops in like famous locations. It's hilarious, because I'm a funny guy, Chad. I make jokes and I do funny shit. So anyway, anyway, she kind of read the riot act that that's not cool. Like that's not funny to her. So I just stopped doing it. But the calendar...
Chad (11:18.57)
Why?
Yeah, no, that's that's awesome. Dog shit. That's that's fucking that's hilarious.
J.T. (11:22.628)
Ugh.
Chad (11:30.034)
yeah.
Joel (11:34.039)
went on our kitchen, kitchen, pantry door on the inside, obviously. So when we threw that one out, I ended up getting this calendar from wedge and my seven year old is like, can we put this up where the dog poop calendar used to go? And both my wife and I like in sync were like, no. So
J.T. (11:53.519)
Okay, two things. First of all, the poo calendar should have gone on the snacks cabinet, because talk about a way to get people to not do it. Secondly, have you ever heard the phrase that everybody thinks they have style and a sense of humor, my friend? Because I can see why your wife was like, eh, never again. You now consult before you do gifts like this. Exactly, exactly.
Chad (11:58.976)
there it is. There it is.
Chad (12:08.076)
If Joel has it in spades when it comes to this, yeah, yeah, no kidding.
Joel (12:11.897)
Hey.
Joel (12:16.288)
This is why we have women on the show now so I can get some guidance and some structure in my life. Thank you.
Chad (12:19.192)
Yes. Yes.
Well, I mean, not everybody got one of these sexy things for free. Although, although you can go to ChadCheese.com slash free free t-shirts from our friends over at Aaron app. That's right. You might not be wearing the red clown shoes, although you can wear the Chad and cheese t-shirt with Aaron app on the back. It's pretty awesome. Bourbon barrel aged syrup from our friends up North Kiara bourbon barrel aged. That's Pappy's bourbon. Yep.
J.T. (12:25.647)
I am jealous.
Joel (12:25.71)
Now...
Joel (12:40.815)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (12:52.002)
Craft beer from the data geeks over at Aspen Tech Labs, whiskey, whiskey, maybe chicken cock, you never know, from our friends at Van Hack. And if it.
Joel (12:56.343)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Chad (13:05.312)
I know, Stephen. I know you do. And if it's your birthday, it's Rum from Plum. You could possibly win Rum from Plum. Go to ChadCheese.com slash free to register to possibly win.
Joel (13:09.079)
yeah.
Joel (13:19.993)
That's right, Chad. Another trip around the sun for Alicia Buchler, Lucas Roscoe, Katie Gentry, John Tehan, Kevin Loak, Alan Jason Bourne, Laura Martinelli, Nico Slavades, Paul Norman, Kristi Carpenter Turnley, Jenny Cody Kangas, also known as, that's right. And Scott Stum. Round out our birthdays for the week. Happy birthday, listeners.
Chad (13:37.784)
JCK! JCK!
J.T. (13:43.471)
Happy birthday.
Chad (13:47.54)
And guess what? It's events time. What does does Steven have to say?
Joel (13:51.311)
What does Stephen have to say? So many things.
Chad (13:58.796)
Oof! Oof! Well, on the road with Shaker Marketing. Look at this. Look at this. Is that not sexy or what? Hard case from Shaker. Yep. That new stuff might have to get you one of those, JT. So on the road, Trample, sponsored by Shaker Recruitment Marketing. We talked about last week, was with Joe in Madrid. So much wine. So much fucking wine.
Joel (14:10.159)
That is nice.
J.T. (14:14.23)
I would love one of those.
Chad (14:25.42)
What's coming up, you can spend St. Patrick's Day with Chad and Cheese in Vegas during Transform at the Wynn, March 17th through the 19th. JT's gonna be there, Mo's gonna be there, Chad, Cheese, we're gonna be there. Go to chadcheese.com slash events, register, see you at Transform. You can also register, get ready, to kick back, have a discussion and some free drinks with the Chad and Cheese, courtesy of Omar and the JobPixel team. And no, Cheeseman, Omar did not splurge.
for the face tattoo and the tiger package. Okay. We're getting the.
Go to ChadCheese.com on the homepage. You'll be able to click on register and it's a honey honeymoon sweet waiting list. That's that's a tongue twister. That's what you can actually get. There you go. It's a teaser. It's a teaser.
Joel (15:13.198)
Tease me, Chad.
Don't tease me, Chad. Don't tease me. All right.
You
Chad (15:23.246)
Fuckin' Steven.
Joel (15:25.431)
All right. Well, this, feel like this is going to be a trend, but we have some layoffs this week. That's right. Some industry and some otherwise workday is cutting 1,750 jobs affecting around 8 % of its workforce as it leans into AI to counter what it says is a softer macroeconomic environment. Also HCM platform just works is laying off 200 of its almost 1500 employees citing a possible recession.
J.T. (15:30.447)
Yeah.
Joel (15:53.583)
rising interest rates and a trade war as reasons for the decision. But wait, there's more Chad and JT Metta is laying off some 3,600 folks representing about 5 % of its head count. Methinks this is a trend that we'll be talking about a lot in the months to come. Chad, you have any thoughts?
Chad (15:59.809)
Mm.
Chad (16:13.816)
Yeah, we're always blaming something on the layoffs, right? It's either a return to office where we're trying to force layoffs. Now it's going to be AI. We're going to be blaming AI. We're embracing AI. We're doing layoffs. I mean, there's always a blame and an excuse happening. So yeah, go figure. Workday, known for their AI, is going to be doing that, of course.
J.T. (16:21.775)
Okay.
Joel (16:22.731)
Mm-hmm. Tariffs.
Joel (16:29.423)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (16:37.141)
Mm-hmm. JT, you're...
J.T. (16:38.351)
Now the Facebook one I find super interesting because they call it a layoff, but then they made it very clear that these were people who were low performers. It's in the news and you were laid off because you have been labeled a low performer. So imagine going out looking for a job right now and going, yeah, it was one of the 3,600 laid off recently. Oh, so you're a low performer? I mean, that was a triple slap in the face if you want to do that.
Chad (16:40.803)
Why's that?
Joel (16:49.625)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (16:53.762)
You're fired.
J.T. (17:05.039)
know, over 40 % of companies have said they're going to lay off this year. We've been calling this for a while. I do, I will say the AI thing, I get it. It's a really easy way to explain it. But I am seeing a lot of companies just realizing we can get people for cheaper. We can teach them how to leverage technology like AI. Let's redo the salary bands. This white collar job recession, I just don't think it's going away anytime soon. I think it's going to be a rough year for your six figure folks.
Joel (17:10.159)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (17:21.935)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (17:31.139)
Hmm.
Chad (17:31.478)
hitting we're all time all time high revenues and how can we actually drive down wages that sounds awesome fucking
Joel (17:39.599)
Yeah, I love, I love Chad's take on like the rolling reason to lay people off, whether it's, you know, return to office. Okay. We'll lose about 5 % on that one. Okay. Well, shit, we had, we still have, it's still too heavy. Uh, let's bl what are going to blame tariffs, uh, potential recession, uh, you know, like, um, yeah, that's, that's, that's all very fun. Cause you can't just say, I can do these jobs apparently, uh, that people are doing, or we can pay like
J.T. (17:46.287)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (18:08.771)
people lot less than that. yeah, and I love that that Zuck is doing his best Jack Welch imitation that we're just cutting the low performers. That's an easy answer. That's an easy answer.
Chad (18:20.59)
handbook.
Joel (18:25.889)
All right, well, let's get to some industry news. Phenom, based in Philly, so they're probably having a good time this week, acquired Edge, a talent mobility software provider for global capability centers or GCCs. The acquisition aims to enhance Phenom's AI capabilities and workforce planning through Edge's technology, which they say has shown a significantly improvement on internal hiring processes and resource management.
Financial details were not disclosed. Edge had previously raised about $4.6 million. Phenom CEO had a little video explaining the reason why. Take a look.
Joel (20:27.417)
Reskilling, upskilling, replacing contractors, Chad, the story is getting one that's coming up often. What are your thoughts on this acquisition?
Chad (20:37.346)
Yeah, I mean, as we see more talent acquisition professionals and chief people officers truly understand what and where talent impacts the business, where it's the bottom line, by the way, we've seen a movement toward combining talent acquisition and talent management into a single talent function that represents and manages the entire lifecycle. So the TAM, the total addressable market is much larger with this acquisition. It's harder to manage.
But movement toward bigger money makes your investors happy, especially since consolidation will and should move toward a singular talent function. From a competitive standpoint, will this give Phenom an edge? Get it? It does provide better narrative for their ability to land and expand customers. But as we all know, it's about focus and execution. Broadening the TAM like this kills the focus.
and forces a company to burn more cash or just install the tech, set it and forget it, which we all know doesn't work. Taleo was acquired by who? We talk about acquisitions that have happened all throughout the years by HCM companies. This is kind of happening the other way around. It's still a focus issue. Will they have the money? Will they have the investment to be able to do so? So they'll have to grow staff as they move down funnel.
and it's going to be a lot harder to actually manage. Good for Phenom, great for Edge. Don't get me wrong. But as we see, and we're going to see more of this, more companies move down funnel toward talent management. It depends on how fast they go down funnel. If they slowly baby step down funnel, it's one thing. If they take warp speed approaches like this seems to be, it could be very hard to manage. We're going to have step back and watch.
Joel (22:09.775)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (22:32.782)
Mm-hmm.
This one was, this one was weird to me. last week we talked about paradox making an acquisition and they created a video with the founders of CEOs of both organizations. It was warm and fuzzy. felt really good. This, this was weird because I get a lot of press releases and usually in every press release, there's a link to the company that's getting acquired. There's no, there's no link to edge in the press release. That's weird.
Chad (22:59.859)
yeah.
Joel (23:04.655)
Usually you're proud, like check it out, look at who we bought. So I had to dig around about what's the URL, what's going on. I went to LinkedIn. I didn't find it there. There's a ton of edge companies. So I was like, well, okay, let's keep digging. Uh, I looked, I finally found a news report from 2017 where they had raised, um, some money. It was like four and a half million dollars. Good raise. got the, the, the CEO and founders name, a guy named our John pray tap.
And so I looked up him on LinkedIn, he's there. And then I finally found the company. So I don't know if they made it unsearchable or something weird. So it, looks like a stable company. They've kind of stead. They've been pretty steady in head count. They're typical, uh, people are there for a long time. However, I did see that they hired a COO, uh, in may of 24 who left in November of 24. Usually when you hire COO and they're gone within six months, like something.
happened that's not great. Either they found something wrong or they were sold a bill of goods. I don't know. But there was a concerted effort in this announcement to like, just say edge. Don't ask questions about where, if you go to their URL, it goes directly to phenom. They didn't give it any time to sort of percolate and let people find out what they're doing. So I don't even know exactly what they do or what companies are our customers. Like it's very, very cloak and dagger.
Chad (24:10.542)
prepping for acquisition.
Joel (24:31.649)
I do know that they have three primary products, which they had in their LinkedIn. have Pathfinder, which is your upskilling stuff. They do have a recruitment product called Edge Recruit. That was not mentioned in the video. And then Mobility, which was find the right person internally for the right job. So this reeks of sort of, we have a check box that you can check off, but it doesn't really reek of, we just acquired a kick-ass company with an awesome leadership team and great employees.
And we're going to bring them into phenom. It just reeks of like either desperation, check it off. Let's, need to do this. It's kind of weird. I'm going to watch it, but it has all the, all the elements of like, let's, let's save this dying horse. They, they were founded in 2012. So they've been around for a while. Let's save this, this sinking company say that we have upscaling and then let's move on and hope that no one asks questions, but we have the show that asks questions.
J.T. (25:29.347)
So yeah, I have an observation and then a question for you two about it. So watching the video gives me the vibes of back when IBM was pushing the idea of, are you fungible? This is first time I'd ever heard that term. And they talked about they had built this incredible spreadsheet or tool that could tell them where all their bench was and how you could then redeploy this. This is like 15 years ago, right? So we've been talking about this idea of redeploying talent and how do we do this? I feel like forever.
Joel (25:50.713)
Yeah.
J.T. (25:56.303)
So that's the vibe I got from that. But the question I have for you both is if I read it right, this is like the sixth acquisition they've made. So that does scream to me like, hey, we're trying to show you that we're putting together this incredible tech stack really fast. And I know that story plays well for people, especially maybe the less informed. But, you know, I think to your point, Joel, like, is it checking a box? Is it just another equi-hire? Are they just...
Joel (26:03.023)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (26:03.843)
Yes.
J.T. (26:23.331)
Are they cashing in right now? Companies that aren't making it, can they get them for a low price? It certainly sounds like that based on what they saw, but I defer to the pros. Yeah.
Chad (26:30.168)
Sounds like yes, yes and yes.
Joel (26:33.539)
Yeah. I mean, I think if, think if you look back at their acquisitions, most of them are India based, nothing wrong with India, but they're, tend to be companies that no one knows that we don't see them at conferences. don't. So they're sort of a mystery. Maybe they're great deals. Maybe they're great acqui-hires and great technology, but they're just not in the zeitgeist of what Chad and I do on a regular basis. They're kind of out of sight, out of mind. And then they're automatically.
J.T. (26:56.313)
Mm.
Joel (27:00.449)
acquired and we have to comment on it, but we don't know shit about them, especially if there's no website or no, like if they, they, you know, hide the crumbs, it's hard to make a comment.
J.T. (27:05.666)
Right?
Chad (27:15.832)
Your favorite.
Joel (33:05.582)
Let's take a quick break. We'll come back and talk a little bit more layoffs. How about that?
Joel (33:17.679)
All right, guys, this from the Wall Street Journal this week. A new report says the tech sector unemployment has surged from 3.9 % to 5.7 % in one month. With 152,000 layoffs attributed to AI displacing jobs, particularly in software development and white collar roles. Despite this in-person and skilled jobs remain competitive. Major companies have cut jobs, suggesting AI investments might lead to, you guessed it, even more layoffs in
the future. JT, you've got your finger on the pulse of job seeking. What are the job seekers thinking about this new trend?
J.T. (33:54.805)
Yeah, well, first of all, that number is probably higher than 5%, 5.7%. We're not taking into account the people that are underemployed or part-time gig in it that aren't into that mix. We've been way higher for a while. And the tech sector started this in 2023. So they're hitting their peak. Most definitely hitting their peak. I think they'll be in a lot of pain for the next six to eight months. And then what you hope, right, the bigger the disruption, the bigger the innovation, this is when we're going to start to see a lot of new startups pop up.
Joel (33:59.075)
Mm-hmm.
J.T. (34:23.331)
and that talent will find homes in these small little things that hopefully some will become unicorns, right? So we know that'll eventually happen, but the pain point right now is insane. And one of the best ways that we predicted as we look at just the emotion level on social and what we're seeing with our job seekers, and it is out of control. People are angry, scared. These are people with mortgages and lifestyles that are completely decimated.
has very much the vibe for me of when the dot-com post happened. was managing in the Silicon Valley at the time and you were having these people holding on to get the salary they had before and the type of job they had before. They lost their 401ks, they lost their homes and they still ended up in a job half the pay that they did before. And so we're out evangelizing, you know, take the job, take the lower paying job, but that's not easy to say to somebody who, you know, I'm not going to call it ego, but has spent a life building a career to watch it tumble back. And so it is
Chad (35:01.955)
Not happening.
J.T. (35:19.691)
Insane right now super painful And I think you just got to be really careful around people companies should be aware what they say what they do because that particular group of people I mean they got tech skills They could do some some pretty nasty things to your company, you know, so be aware
Joel (35:36.375)
You know, in the.com and the.com bust, I don't think there was a sense that the internet was not going to be a thing. think there, there was a sense that, okay, things are going to shuffle around. Companies are going to go out of business, but ultimately these developers will go to the companies that win. And those were Amazon and Google and some of the names that we know now. I feel like the fear now is the job ain't coming back. So like, to me, this, this is more than just let's just.
J.T. (35:42.766)
Hmm.
J.T. (35:57.903)
Fair.
Joel (36:02.691)
Let's batten down the hatches and suck it up and like survive. This is what the hell am I going to do? Because you have developers that grew up with, you'll have a job forever. There will, we will need developers forever. And now they look in the mirror and go, Holy shit. I was, I was sold this promise of riches and job security is that that's gone now. Right.
J.T. (36:25.881)
But I'm just gonna jump in and say, if this isn't a heed for everybody, tech is always first. So we've been talking about AI making a lot of jobs not come back. It's every industry. It's not just tech. And people are in denial about that. And I think really just feel like, well, when it hits me and it happens to me, I'll deal with it then. Which is a shame because there's a lot you could be doing right now to avoid that. And that's the part that I think is, know, someone works with job seekers every day. Like, what do you say to them when you're like,
Joel (36:38.179)
Yeah.
Joel (36:51.447)
Yeah, there was a
J.T. (36:55.247)
you know, I'm sorry, you've been out of work nine months, you drained everything. And no, that job you want, you don't have a shot at it because we also know that hiring is discrimination and people who have a job get a job faster than people who don't have a job. So when you look at the vast majority of people that are laid off and the longer they sit, it's like a house on the market. The longer it sits on the market, more people think something's wrong with it, right? So it's not just tech, but tech is that leading factor, the domino effects happening, not to be, you know, a Debbie Downer, but we got a brace for this.
Joel (37:21.764)
Yeah.
There's a popular marketing guy on LinkedIn that talked about, I think he said 70 % of chief marketing officers will be extinct in the next few years. Like it's going to hit all these white collar jobs. People don't know they're not, it's going to be weird. like they're, don't know if there are enough companies to be started to like employ all these people. I don't know.
J.T. (37:46.669)
Okay, and I'm just going to tell you that I think we are coming full circle. Everybody is a business of one. We have said that forever, but we went through an age where everybody worked for other companies. I think we are coming full circle and that every job is temporary. And if we're all businesses of one going forward, we will create multiple streams of income. And that is how you will survive. And it's possible. We live in a creator economy. Everybody has a skillset that they could monetize some way beyond just doing that regular job. I think that's going to be.
Joel (37:50.254)
Yep.
J.T. (38:16.703)
forced upon people to see if they're not already starting to pick that up. Case in point, Gal in my social media feed, just like I was doing 30,000 a month. I instituted AI to run all of my marketing and do all my actions. She's like, I'm now making a hundred thousand dollars a month. There's so much opportunity. I just think enough people aren't in pain yet for them to go force themselves to look at these other ways to monetize. I am an optimist in that front. I really believe everyone can monetize. look at
you know, social platforms like LinkedIn is all in on video. All right, let us monetize. Maureen said that last time, pay people for click better yet, let them sell some things that they, know, little courses that they've built or things that they've had. Like, why are we not there yet allowing people to make money off of their knowledge beyond a job, you know?
Joel (39:07.279)
Chad, any thoughts? Nope. All right. Let's go to Converse AI, an AI recruitment startup from Seattle. They've raised 16 million in a Series A funding round led by Menlo Ventures. I think they were Jobster investors back in the day, Chad. The funds will support global expansion, team growth, and product enhancement. Their AI virtual recruiters automate hiring, promising to cut time to placement by up to 90%.
Chad (39:08.513)
Nope.
J.T. (39:09.519)
You
Joel (39:34.383)
boosting efficiency by 30 % and increasing revenue by 40 % for clients. Chad, your thoughts on Converse AI.
Chad (39:43.842)
So take a look at a team first. It looks like, I don't know if it's a couple of brothers or cousins or something like that, but it looks like the founder and CEO and the COO who have amazing Microsoft and Google backgrounds, looks like they're brothers. Good for them. Not in our space though. Although Tim Robbins, 18 years at Monster, Tiffany Hoffman, 22 years at Monster and Kara Scheffel, almost seven years at Monster. They're leading up pretty much sales, like go to market side of the house.
Joel (39:58.703)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (40:11.936)
So it's quite possible that Converge AI has the tech product and industry knowledge plus 16 million new reasons to bet on them. Here's my only word of caution. 2025 will be the year of agent tech and these types of companies will be popping up every five minutes. The question is, will this company have an edge over Paradox, Fountain, Harry or even Phenom? What about long standing brands like Smart Recruiters who literally
through their roadmap out the window and now hyper-focused on building agentic tech. Apparently companies like Workday are positioning themselves to be an AI-like company. But at the end of the day, Converse AI seems like they're really focusing on the staffing sector, which means if they show momentum, they could get possibly acquired by a staffing company or Bullhorn takes them off the market in less than 24 months.
Joel (40:46.137)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (41:00.238)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (41:10.338)
We've seen the biggest staffing companies in the world like a deco and ronstadt. They have no fucking clue what to do with tech. They no clue. They don't know it. They don't get it. They've tried it. So I really think that a company like bullhorn or a company trying to at least be more competitive with a bullhorn buying into an organization like this just makes good sense.
Joel (41:15.843)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (41:32.057)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (41:34.542)
Yeah.
Joel (41:36.121)
This really made me go down memory lane, Chad.
That's right, kids. If you don't know Jobster, a company that shook things up back in the mid 2000s, they were from Seattle, which was hip, which was hip and cool at the time. Jason Goldberg, Google them. Anyway, so this, this brought back some memories of, Jobster. I don't think we're anywhere near that kind of bubble of a company. I do have a question. Their homepage has an iPhone with headphones on talking to a microphone. I have no, I.
Chad (41:50.67)
That was a mirage.
Joel (42:11.567)
That's like a podcast website. So I don't know what who's doing their marketing, but that is totally like confusing to what you guys do. Anyway, I'm with you, Chad. This is a staffing play. are laser focused on that. They have, they have industry folks that will get them in there. I have in my notes, like if bullhorn isn't taking notes on this, like they're, they're going to, they're a mess, but we know the bullhorn is, uh, historically makes some really good acquisitions.
I'm sure they've got their eye on these guys. I would not be surprised if 12, 24 months, we have a story about Converse AI getting acquired by Bullhorn and having Bullhorn just conveniently plug in their technology into all the Bullhorn clients and making a ton of that coin, baby.
That's right. That's right. This is, this is a buy for me if we were playing by ourselves, JT, any thoughts?
J.T. (43:05.549)
Yeah, I agree. You know what? I like it for the reasons you talked about Chad. I like non-industry founders who surround themselves with people who grew up in our space, get them in a room together. And the people from our space get some fresh eyes from the tech standpoint, but the tech founders get the much needed perspective of how our industry operates and together to make magic. I really like this for some reason. I agree with you. think in a couple, 24 months, whatever they're going to get acquired and go on and do great things. But this one,
Definitely a bye.
Joel (43:37.647)
All right, we like it. Let's go on to some military news, Chad, something close to your heart. Newly minted Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth was busy this week in a historic moment for the Army. Recruitment has surged. That's right. I said surged in the military.
Anyway, Surge to a Level not seen or reported in the last 15 years setting a new milestone for the organization. This follows years of recruiting challenges for the military and the army. Chad, your thoughts on the Surge?
Chad (44:13.878)
Yeah, so the US Army announced the sweeping overhaul of its recruitment strategy in October of 2023. Yes, 2023, which includes shifting focus toward recruiting young adults who have attended college rather than high school students. Okay, so what's the real reason why we're hitting our recruitment numbers? We've heard report after report after report about how young adults with expensive college degrees and student loan payments can't find jobs.
Then the Biden administration who forgave about 5 million of these individuals, but not all. That's where we're at. So it's like, where can we go after individuals who are in need? They need to pay the bills and they need to pay their college debt. That's the fucking fairy dust here, kids. It's not because young adults are excited to invade the Gaza strip.
lay on a beach and start building fucking resorts. It's because those Americans are trying their damnedest to find a job, get out of debt, and in many areas of the United States, they have very limited choices. You either work in an Amazon warehouse and piss in a garbage can, or you join the United States military. As a 20-year veteran, I had limited opportunities out of Mansfield, Ohio. One of the reasons, and I wanted to get the fuck out of Mansfield, Ohio.
Joel (45:30.703)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (45:37.73)
which is one of the reasons why I did it. There are reasons for it. And I think the administration understood back in 2023 that these are the types of targets that we need to go to instead of just going after high school students, which was really the focus. Let's go after the individuals who are to be quite frank, really destitute and they need a job today.
Joel (46:00.941)
Chad, I'm confused because Hegseth tweeted on, quote, America's youth want to serve under the bold and strong America first leadership of Donald Trump in quote. you saying that's not the case?
J.T. (46:11.823)
Thank
Chad (46:14.572)
I'm saying when you hire a drunken frat boy as your secretary of defense, anything could come out of his fucking mouth.
Joel (46:22.511)
By the way, my 18 year old, the parents got a text from the army today about Cole joining the military. So they're texting now. They're texting now. He's going to Bloomington, baby. He's going to Bloomington. JT, any thoughts on the military surge?
Chad (46:30.252)
Yeah, go to the Air Force. Go to the Air Force.
J.T. (46:38.595)
Sidebar, I'm still getting those texts from my youngest daughter and she's three years into school. So they're still sending out those texts, but yeah, exactly. know, Chad's right. The level of people that have college degrees and college debt and can't even get a job that requires one is out of control. The number of people that have two degrees, think one's bad enough. The number of people that overspent to get a master's or an MBA thinking that would differentiate them down the drain.
Chad (46:44.465)
yeah, well she's Target now.
Chad (47:00.12)
Mm-hmm.
J.T. (47:05.718)
If someone is presenting an opportunity for you to get out of the weight that you're carrying and you can't see any other way out, you're gonna do it, right? And so I agree, that's what the surge is. And I love that you walked through that timeline. What worries me though is that when you're in pain like that, anytime you're emotional in pain, you're not making smart decisions. And so how many of these people are gonna get in there and then when they have a chance to...
chill for hot minute, go, my gosh, what did I just do? And I think that's gonna be the next wave of news stories that we see coming out of that, which is unfortunate.
Joel (47:40.939)
but wait, JT, there's more. There's more Hegseth. There's more Hegseth because it is Valentine's Day. Also in the news, Hegseth criticized military diversity initiatives, eliminated DEI programs and ended Identity Month celebrations, arguing they divide the military force. Chad, any thoughts on the elimination of DEI programs in the military?
Chad (48:04.238)
Again, who put the drunken frat boy in charge of defense? I just don't get it. So the U S population is 14 % black, right? In the U S army, the biggest U S military branch, it's 21 % black soldiers, 14 % population, 21 % U S army Hispanics make up 19 % of the U S population of which 26 % of the Marines are Hispanic.
And when it comes to multiracial demographics, the U S population is at 3%, which I think is low, but the U S Navy is at 10%. So to actually be in the military, which drunken frat boy was, and not even understand the diversity of the millions of people he's supposed to be leading while smacking all of those diverse soldiers, airmen, sailors, Marines and coasties in the face. That's not just bad form. It just might be.
It might be the dumbest statement made in military history. And last but not least, for everybody hating on DEI, well, you'd better understand your asses are fucking safe today and have been for decades because of a diverse US military, which allows you to be safe. Black and Hispanic soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines and coasties keep your asses safe on a daily basis. So you better kiss that DEI square on the fucking lips.
Chad (49:32.142)
You
Joel (49:33.967)
I'm with Chad dude. Whoever wants to pick up a gun and stand between me and an invading force of America, like I don't care what your sex is, what you identify as, what your color is. Like I don't give a shit. If you got a gun protecting me and my family, I'm in, I'm in. That's all I got. That's all I got. JT, anything?
Chad (49:43.054)
Pronouns, any of that shit. None.
Yes.
J.T. (49:52.207)
I just felt like that was his, you can't handle the truth moment, right? He just wanted to get on camera and be like, mm, look at me. And so, know, but I'm, with both of you. You know, I just, blows my mind to not respect.
Joel (49:59.844)
Dude.
J.T. (50:10.927)
But I'm just hopeful that they will see the error of their ways or, know, right, karma will come back.
Joel (50:14.521)
Such a voice of reason, JT, is let's take a second to, let's take a moment to decompress and end the show with an OnlyFans story as what better way on Valentine's Day week to do.
Chad (50:17.474)
We need it. We need it.
J.T. (50:20.547)
Right?
Chad (50:23.53)
imagine that.
Joel (50:30.701)
All right, guys, banks management. That's B-A-N-X, traditional only fans management company involves working with human models, which can include recruitment challenges, scheduling conflicts, high management overhead. but they've got a better answer. Everybody with AI generated models, not real people. You eliminate the drama and the complexity of a traditional only fans management company. These virtual models are created.
using advanced AI tools, allowing you to scale your agency, operate at lower cost and enjoy fully automated hands-off business model. Each model in quotes can generate $5,000 to $30,000 per month or more, depending on your marketing and fan management strategies. That was a long way of saying there's an underbelly industry that I didn't even know existed about only fans management. Where apparently people will get it like a, it's like a subway franchise.
They used to give you models and you would manage these models and get a cut. Well, now they have AI. You can have as many models as you fucking want. You get to keep all the profits, get them to do whatever you want. You market these things. I mean, I've talked about this for a long time. Only fans, whatever it's going to be like $9 a month have unlimited chicks, women, excuse me, and whatever you're into. it's going to be AI. You're not going to tell the difference.
I rarely can tell the difference between AI now and a real person like that. That divide is getting really small for me. So anyway, this is where we're going. my own personal opinion, the average only fan creator, makes $150 a month. Okay. So as someone with a daughter, like I'm applauding this trend because how demeaning is it to like put your hoo-hah and your body on the internet?
Only to be told it's only worth $150 a month, right? So you put yourself out there, demean yourself, embarrass yourself, and this stuff is out there forever. So I want to see less people, women, girls, whatever on OnlyFans. And if it's AI that displaces this workforce, I'm okay with it.
Chad (52:43.085)
Bye, JT.
J.T. (52:43.941)
my God, have so much to say. Is it my turn? Yeah. So yeah. I know. Look, you know, if you go look at CES, they interviewed the CEO of OnlyFans and she knows what she's talking about. She sees the potential. I think she sees a future with lots of sister brands. know, OnlyFans can stay spicy, but they've figured out a really impressive business model over there. After we talked about it, I went deep diving and actually
Chad (52:46.158)
Mine's easy. The human race isn't long for this world. I mean, that's all I got.
Joel (52:46.168)
No.
Joel (52:49.903)
You
J.T. (53:13.707)
met and have spoken to somebody, a woman that makes a ridiculous amount of money on OnlyFans. She works very few hours a week and she has a team that handles all of that relationship management and that piece and happy to give a cut of it because the money is just pouring in. doesn't even have to think about it. She just gets to be the creator. And by the way, there are a lot of creators on there that don't take their clothes off. There are a lot of creators on there doing, you know, anything from the girlfriend experience to cooking to pottery, like
there's a lot more to it. It's just been labeled and made its name for the spicy side of it. And so while we sit and laugh about it and we need jobs, there is a creator economy out there that is booming and everyone can be doing different things. I think that this is going to is just the beginning of people being able to monetize across all types of things. Fine, don't go to OnlyFans. Don't go to OnlyFans, but replicate it and do it on something else.
Joel (54:00.153)
Come on, JT, come on, JT. Burger King has salads, but no one goes there for the salads. Come on, come on.
J.T. (54:11.565)
You know, like why can't I as a project manager, instead of being stuck in my project management, I do other things.
Joel (54:16.079)
Do you agree though, like what I'm curious from your thoughts, like these AI personalities, whether they're sexy women or whatever, the creator ecosystem is gonna be inundated with AI people in quotes. aren't they gonna flood every sort of content creator industry or no?
J.T. (54:39.215)
Yeah, and then people are going to say, OK, give me the person that I know is an AI, and give me a way to authenticate that that's a real person, not AI. And then they'll build that. When you put that constraint on it, something else is going to be built from it. That's how it works. This is just the beginning. We're interested with AI. love that for you, you're like, $9 a month, AI only. But then there are going to be people saying, no, I'll pay $39 a month to know it's real human being. So yeah, right.
Joel (54:54.063)
I don't know if.
Chad (55:04.684)
Yeah. Yeah. The premium service. There's the premium service and actually flesh and blood. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There are tears, there are tears and there's productization. And if Americans do anything well, it's building products and selling that shit. yeah, I, I, I, agree. I agree.
J.T. (55:08.226)
I just make more money.
J.T. (55:18.649)
You got it. There you go.
Joel (55:22.799)
and then the sex bots will put all of them out of business. All right, let's get to this week's dad joke, shall we? Guys, what's worse than two girls running with scissors? What's worse than two girls running with scissors?
Chad (55:26.055)
Humanity, Humanity. Out the window.
Chad (55:38.776)
falling with scissors. I don't know.
Joel (55:41.657)
Two girls scissoring with the runs.
Chad (55:47.244)
That's just bad. bad. worse than open than kimono bad.
Joel (55:47.981)
Happy Valentine's Day everybody! We out!
J.T. (55:48.239)
That was.
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