It's LinkedIn's World...
- Chad Sowash
- 2 minutes ago
- 21 min read
Chad & Cheese cozy up with Alex Fourlis, SVP and GM at Veritone Hire and low-key philosopher of recruitment doom.
They unpack LinkedIn’s growing chokehold on recruiting like it’s a Marvel villain nobody voted for—complete with algorithmic mind control and passive-aggressive InMail.
Alex drops truth bombs about the platform’s data addiction, employer branding gymnastics, and the fact that recruiters are basically just paying rent in LinkedIn’s World™ now.
Also:
🎯 Are job ads even ads anymore?
💸 Why PPC is like lighting money on fire, one click at a time
🧠 And how to survive when your “recruiting strategy” is just hoping LinkedIn doesn’t change the rules again
Spoiler: They always do.
ENJOY!
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Joel (00:29.774)
Yeah, this is the Chad and cheese podcast. I'm your co host Joel Cheeseman joined as always. Chad. So washes writing shotgun as we welcome Alex Fourlis SVP and GM at Veritone Hire. Alex welcome to HR is most dangerous podcast.
Alex Fourlis (00:48.574)
Thank you for having me guys. Big fun.
Joel (00:51.084)
He's so subdued after that. I was hoping to get you excited, but I guess not. All right, let's.
Chad (00:55.319)
Hahaha
Alex Fourlis (00:56.202)
I'm seeing that Manchester United shirt and I'm a Liverpool fan so I'm kind of hurting right now. I'm bit hurting, you announced this immense new stadium and everything so it's kind of...
Chad (01:00.591)
Yeah, kind of put
Joel (01:01.23)
Are you offended by that? you? Uh oh.
Chad (01:03.908)
Yeah. They had an issue yesterday. Yeah.
Joel (01:12.792)
I think Liverpool is going to be okay. I think they're going to be all right. I'm not too worried about them. Aside from being a Liverpool fan, Alex, you have a rich history in the industry. I don't know if you're Greek. Let the listeners know a little bit about you and Veritone and specifically maybe what you do for Veritone.
Chad (01:16.176)
think that'd be okay.
Alex Fourlis (01:17.503)
thing.
Chad (01:33.924)
And what's your favorite Greek island? That's what I want to know.
Alex Fourlis (01:34.259)
Yes.
Okay, that's a very, very, very difficult question to answer. There's an island for everything, pretty much. Let's get to that. But if you want my... a nice tip, let's say Milos for now. Like Milos is an amazing island, it has a lot of things to offer. So look it up.
Joel (01:38.219)
and
Chad (01:40.794)
Ha ha ha!
Joel (01:54.862)
Is that the one with the tops, the roofs, the blue roofs, the domes?
Chad (01:55.236)
Milas.
Alex Fourlis (02:02.218)
No, it has famously a lot of small colored houses that literally used to house fishing boats and they're literally almost on the sea and has some amazing volcanic beaches. It's the ones where you see the rocks and people diving from white rocks towards the blue sea.
Joel (02:22.894)
Sounds just like Indiana, sounds a lot like Indiana. So yeah, continue with Veritonin and your background.
Alex Fourlis (02:30.11)
Yes, I'm more than 25 years in this industry. started from like founding a Greek job board with some friends right out of university. At the time, before 2000, were very few players in the market. And this kind of journey got me through Carrebuilder. I've worked for a big job board, managing businesses on the European level.
and eventually moved to Broadbean and now to WaitOnHire. So WaitOnHire shortly as is an integration of two very big brand names in the industry, Broadbean and PandaLogic. So we offer the complete breadth of solutions that someone that needs to attract candidates needs today from advertising, programmatic advertising, anywhere in the world.
we can help you get the best candidate at the right time at the right price.
Joel (03:30.766)
So an employer comes to you and you do what for them?
Alex Fourlis (03:34.984)
So we will help them distribute the jobs right from inside their ATS or their preferred recruiter software system and distribute it to more than 2000 job boards globally. In some markets, we will distribute from the ATS straight to the job board. In other markets where I have matured like the North American market, we will programmatically manage their campaigns. So we completely automate the delivery of their jobs, manage the budget.
Chad (03:51.525)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Fourlis (04:03.368)
the outcomes and the analytics back to them and they don't need to lift a finger.
Chad (04:10.042)
So you have a deep understanding of not just the duration based market, also the performance based market. So are we starting to see more of a movement in the U.S. obviously to performance and then what are you seeing outside of the U.S. because I know that the adoption outside the U.S. is much slower when it comes to performance. What are we seeing U.S. adoption and then obviously outside?
Alex Fourlis (04:34.046)
Yeah, just to give you an understanding, we distribute more than a million jobs per month and we deliver back to our clients more than 10 million of applicants every month, right? So the numbers are pretty huge and that's on a global scale, right? So pretty much everywhere in the Northern Hemisphere and in some cases the Southern as well. But what we're seeing right now is obviously...
Chad (04:42.863)
Hello.
Alex Fourlis (04:58.418)
in terms of automation and programmatic advertising, the North American market is what we consider closer to maturity. It's still, I would say that there is a lot of room to grow in that market as well, but our focus this year is actually taking programmatic advertising on a global journey. We launched in UK, we launched in Australia, we're launching in Germany very soon.
Chad (05:06.597)
Mm.
Alex Fourlis (05:26.442)
We already running campaigns in central Europe. that's where we see things. But in US, definitely the large enterprise clients are looking at programmatic advertising as a core strategy they wanted to deploy. There's a lot of, all the key global players are starting from there, ourselves, our competitors like Upcast.
Jovio, they're all present in that market and we're all kind of tiptoeing internationally.
Joel (06:00.238)
Talk about what you see from a macro perspective. Are jobs increasing, decreasing, parts of the world that are hotter than others? Just give us your 30,000 foot view of jobs right now.
Alex Fourlis (06:11.74)
No, think that the last two years have not been great for the hiring market. So, in all the key kind of like vacancy reports that we see across the last two years, we see like a declining pretty much trend and it's pretty consistent globally. I would say there's obviously there's always going to be the exceptions, but if we look at the big markets,
hiring activity has been decreasing, especially the last 18 months, I would say across North America, Europe and APAC. And I think that's really kind of like hurting different players in the market differently. And there is obviously a lot more focus on budget savings, on getting the optimal expense, on trying different potentially channels, but with the view of managing the budget and the outcomes,
and optimizing the outcomes more. So I think that's the pre-evalent kind of trend in the industry right now. It's optimization and efficiency, as said, mentioned many times. That's the same when it comes to hiring and job advertising. And we can see it like the announcements of the public results of every staffing company in the world and every public job board in the world pretty much.
Chad (07:33.69)
So talk about the maturity models and being able to adopt performance. What about the maturity model around going from CPC, which is literally just spray and pray for God's sake, to CPA and then to CPQC, right? Or CPQA. Right. CPQA.
Alex Fourlis (07:50.27)
Yeah. CPQA as we, yeah. So I think we are literally on the verge of this big change in happening, at least from the side of the platforms, right? I think a couple of months ago, weeks ago, had Chris Forman talking about this move to down funnel, right? To CPQA. And this is exactly where we are as a business as well. We already have...
Chad (08:13.445)
Mm.
Alex Fourlis (08:20.042)
a significant percentage of our clients where we are tracking all the way down to hire and we are increasing it every day is a key focus for us right now. have CPQA data, we have a very flexible model. So pretty much we allow every employer to define what's quality within the ATS status or hiring signals. So for some employers that might be, I want somebody to be going on interview stage for somebody that's a staffing agency that might be
Chad (08:41.754)
Gotcha.
Alex Fourlis (08:50.018)
hiring manager approval of the candidate. So there's different definitions of what quality is per client, but we have a consistent model that we measure CPQA, we measure cost per hire as well. So overall what we are seeing is that this is a very critical point of data for us, but it's
Chad (09:05.946)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Fourlis (09:17.266)
It's starting to become a demand from the industry, right? So even I know that indeed went back and forth with the decisions of working on like these models. But if you see their integration strategy, the mandates that they have for the APIs, the fact that if you want to use Indeed Apply, you need to be providing hiring signals increasingly. They start having deadlines and thresholds of how many signals you.
Chad (09:38.287)
Hmm.
Alex Fourlis (09:45.054)
putting back as a client if you want access to Indeed Apply. And we're seeing pretty much every major competitor, LinkedIn, SICK, I wouldn't say copying, but implementing the exact same strategy that, you know, if you want to have direct apply, like you need to exchange data with us, which is really good.
Chad (09:58.385)
Mm.
Joel (09:59.342)
That sounds like copying.
Chad (10:01.124)
Yeah
Chad (10:06.842)
Well, we're hearing just rumors that Indeed's actually moving to the process where if you're not providing those signals, that you will not be able to actually do business with them. So they will start on the SMB side of the house. And you can do that because they pretty much have the ecosystem that they can force SMBs to use, right? As opposed to actually owning an applicant tracking system and then working up to enterprise.
Alex Fourlis (10:34.664)
Yeah, I think not doing business is too extreme. think, as I said, access to specific APIs that are critical to indeed apply, for example, it is the way that how they would push for more adoption. And to be honest, if we want the outcomes to improve for recruiters and employers, that's the perfect strategy. think as the whole sector, we need to adopt that mentality, right?
Chad (10:39.216)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (10:44.528)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (10:52.015)
Gotcha.
Alex Fourlis (11:04.486)
If you exchange those types of those points of data and those signals, you will by default improve the targeting and the efficiency of those advertising campaigns of those job postings. So I think it's a great thing. know, Indeed is a pioneer in that regard and we are kind of very happy to help the entire kind of ecosystem of clients integrate.
Chad (11:21.136)
Mm.
Alex Fourlis (11:32.04)
with those examples. as I said, it's not just LinkedIn. think there's no major leading job in the world that is not following the exact same practice. And I can give you examples like in even StepStone and even like strong local leaders like Nokia in India, they have very, very similar strategies that they employ.
Joel (11:55.894)
Alex, said, was it 20,000 sources, job boards, other destination sites that you're posting jobs or getting jobs onto? Was it 20,000 you said?
Alex Fourlis (12:06.152)
No, I'm saying 2000 that are really active in the last 90 days we posted jobs and yeah, it's very easy to blow up those numbers, right? Is it did one side or 150?
Joel (12:08.853)
2000.
Joel (12:12.398)
Uh, what's an extra zero? What's an extra zero 2000, 20,000. Uh, yeah. But, uh, I was, uh, no, this is, this is how I, this is how I lose weight in my head. I'm eating two 20,000 calories, but I think it's only two. Anyway. Um, I've, I've had, uh, I've had vendors and people tell me like, uh, all people really need, particularly in the U S is LinkedIn and indeed.
Chad (12:18.978)
Joel Joel's been working for Doge. thinks he thinks six million is six billion.
Alex Fourlis (12:24.008)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Chad (12:30.298)
much easier.
Joel (12:41.046)
Agree, disagree, and if you disagree, why?
Chad (12:48.144)
Can you hear him? Oh, there you go. Lost you there for a minute. Go ahead. Go ahead. Particularly in the US. Said, yeah, go ahead and start all over. Yes, particularly in the US.
Alex Fourlis (12:49.172)
No, I lost Joel. yeah, he's back.
Joel (12:53.208)
Did you get any of it?
Alex Fourlis (12:54.952)
No. Particularly in US, yeah.
Joel (13:01.816)
So I've had conversations with people that say all these programatics, all these other sites, it really doesn't matter. Indeed and LinkedIn are like 80 % of all you need. If you have those two, you don't really need a programmatic solution. I assume you disagree, but I'm curious why.
Alex Fourlis (13:17.822)
Yes, definitely that may apply if you have a very kind of narrow vision of a very specific job role in a very specific market, right? And might be true in that sense. But if we think across the board in many countries and even in North America, there is strengths and there's sides that are particularly good in certain niche.
areas, they're particularly good in certain geographies. And to put it very simply, we all know from like economy and we know from like competition and free competition, the more that you kind of like go into a position as an employer or recruiter advertiser that I put all my chips in like a monopoly or duopoly in that sense, the more in danger long-term is that I have zero control of my strategy.
spend outcomes and no way to diversify. Right. So I think the smart thing, and if we look at commercial advertising, Veyton is coming from the commercial advertising space as a business. Right. That's not what happened there. It's not just, know, there's only, I don't know, Netflix and a single channel that everybody goes to. Right. There's actually, I think we are...
Joel (14:34.551)
and Pepsi.
Chad (14:35.716)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Alex Fourlis (14:40.906)
in cycles of diversification in every market. And right now it might look that, know, indeed, LinkedIn have conquered the universe and, you know, in four or five times, four or five years time, we might see that this is also starting to change. And by the way, if we look, if I'm a multinational employer, what I'm going to do in Australia, what I'm going to do in China, what I'm going to do in India, what I'm going to do in Europe, that's not a...
Chad (15:07.418)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Fourlis (15:08.938)
a solution that can work on 100 % of the globe today.
Chad (15:14.276)
Sounds like Joel's talking to lazy recruiters. I need two places. That's it. So we're talking about, again, let's, let's just keep it to the big names right now. We talked about how indeed looks like they're trying to mimic what's happening at LinkedIn, right? Raise the walls. They've got a wall. They've got a walled garden, get more data. More data means better matching. looks like LinkedIn is actually doing better matching within their system.
We've been on them for a very long time about just really, they've got more information about Joel myself and most people that are on LinkedIn that use it daily than anybody else. They should be able to match on that very well. It looks like they're getting better there from a job standpoint, which means they're looking to, prospectively, I would assume, monetize that area of their business more.
Alex Fourlis (15:44.499)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (16:08.116)
you guys are actually working with them around that. Is there, is there a focus on that now? And is it pretty much like they're trying to mimic indeed as indeed is trying to mimic them.
Alex Fourlis (16:19.636)
No, I think that, you know, just to connect to my history, when LinkedIn popped up in like the mid 2010s, everybody in our industry, I was working at Gary Builder, you know, the product team at the time. Everybody thought that this will kind of like, this is the prevalent model. This is going to kill job boards. Like they have the data, they have like the candidate and we all know kind of like a candidate is king when it comes to the job board businesses.
Chad (16:28.08)
Mm.
Alex Fourlis (16:49.722)
I think it took a very long time, but we are now at the point where I think it's going to be an inflection point. Like I think that people start recognizing LinkedIn as also, yes, it's social media, it's somewhere where I build my brand as a business or as an employer, it has other services, but it's also a fine tool for somebody that's looking for a job. And I think that LinkedIn is also serious about the jobs game and they're becoming...
Obviously they launched pay for performance. We're now seeing on our view, an explosive growth on that side of the business, the amount of jobs they're receiving and the amount of, of drafting they're providing back. They're the fastest growing publisher in our network in North America. And I think, and as I said, in a prediction I put for 2025, I think that's going to be the year that the online advertising industry will realize that, you know,
LinkedIn is as big as we always thought they had the potential to be when it comes to not only to recruiter seats, which is kind of like an ubiquitous product for recruiters, but for jobs as well. That's going to be an advertiser as big as Indeed on a global scale, a publisher as big as Indeed on a global scale. And I think we're seeing this in the numbers literally in the last months. And we see it not just quantity, we see the quality as well.
Joel (18:14.819)
What?
Joel (18:18.808)
So speaking of 800 pound gorillas, LinkedIn becoming one. By the way, Chad, I speak to lazy recruiters, which are 80 % of all recruiters, by the way. We haven't mentioned Google. haven't. Well, it sounds like to Alex, we're just going to have to post on LinkedIn and we're done. Alex, we have talked about Google, Google for jobs. Is it an impact? Is it growing, shrinking? What are your thoughts on Google for jobs and how it plays into the ecosystem?
Chad (18:28.858)
Not for long, agentic, agentic.
Alex Fourlis (18:30.216)
Yeah.
Alex Fourlis (18:46.922)
Yeah, I think right now it's on a kind of a bit of a stable mode, right? Nothing that's really in the horizon of changing there. If I'm thinking there's another disruption in the industry, it's more likely to come if search is disrupted by definition from LLMs and different modes and different players that will evolve out of that ecosystem, right? That's moving so fast. So...
I think right now it's easier to predict that Google itself will be disrupted potentially. The entire model that's kind of was a starting point even for job search might be disrupted, then they will disrupt the rest of the industry.
Joel (19:34.702)
And I love that. I'm curious your thoughts, chat GPT, pick one perplexity. What does job search look like on those platforms to you? Is it happening today? Cause it's hard for me to envision searching for a job on chat GPT, but maybe I'm just, old and, and, and it's like,
Alex Fourlis (19:52.85)
No, no. I've seen demonstrations and I played around it myself. And yes, you can, you know, instruct some of those models to review and, you match your profile to jobs and then go and...
Joel (19:58.414)
Uh-huh.
Joel (20:08.214)
Is it pulling from job boards, just job boards around the web? So it's like a vertical search, but it's a conversation as opposed to a search box. Okay. All right.
Alex Fourlis (20:11.623)
Yeah.
Alex Fourlis (20:15.566)
Exactly. And you can guide it and say, I want to look at specific employers or specific areas of employment that I want to focus on and find those jobs. We could go and say, I want to find a job as a CEO in a technology business, give me tips or give me sources of where can I find those jobs and it will bring back results. And I can't think and looking at my son when...
We were studying trigonometry yesterday and my 12 year old son, you know, was checking the answers through charge GPT to make sure that he understood it correctly or taking, you know, all his answers seems to be kind of a go-to tool for every day. cannot imagine that somebody who's in university or graduating from a university day doesn't start there to seek advice, to seek guidance of how to look for a job. think there was a...
Chad (21:06.576)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Fourlis (21:13.678)
An interesting study like circulating last year that a third of graduates from Ivy League universities, they're using AI-supported career search to find their first job. So I think that those types of technologies have a much better chance of disrupting the current business model in the industry.
Chad (21:37.201)
So are you surprised going back to LinkedIn, I mean it's taken them over 20 years for God's sake to actually get jobs right. And that is literally, I mean the space in which they've worked for the most part. How much better are they getting I guess from the standpoint of being able to deliver? Because one of the biggest issues
that companies have had over the years is they can go into LinkedIn and they'll spend money on LinkedIn for the seats so that their recruiters can go and proactively search, right? Not for the jobs. They'll get slots, but for the most part, it's junk, right? Because they really have shitty matching to be able to display the right types of jobs, the right people, et cetera, et cetera. It's taken them 20 years. So we're actually, what I'm hearing is we're actually starting to see the maturation process.
Alex Fourlis (22:07.988)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (22:30.781)
get closer to where they're going to actually be doing much better in the jobs arena. And since in the kind of stats that you guys are saying from the
Alex Fourlis (22:38.814)
Yeah. Look on a global basis, and I'm surprised when people think like it was necessarily junk. The number one source of candidates and applicants that we provide to our clients, and I said like we're talking about, you know, more than 150 million applicants last year, is LinkedIn across the world, right? The number one source of applicants. And the second thing that I want to point out is that they never really went into the performance.
or pay for performance came. They did a release two years ago. It kind of went under the radar. So we started seriously kind of like playing around and putting clients on that model. And I can tell you that within the space of some months, LinkedIn is now our second biggest publisher in North America, right? In the mature programmatic advertising market as we started talking in the beginning. So...
I'm not going to be saying something that you didn't expect here. What we see is the results are there. In some industries, already are above the benchmark. So they're performing more than the average job board. They're also, you can imagine, technology, finance, marketing and everything. They have performance in surprisingly in industries and areas where we didn't expect.
know, transportation and retail and, you know, they're doing pretty well. They're providing a lot of applications to our clients in those areas. And the other very interesting thing is the quality, the conversion from an application to a quality application. The CPQA that we were talking previously for LinkedIn is the best performing job for the last months in North America. It's one out of three of applications that convert to a quality application.
according to our clients. So that's a very interesting kind of like metric that's pointing out that they're doing something better in terms of matching. It's still, you to be honest, we are trying to help them in a way. Like when we post the jobs, now we're trying a lot more to put the right skills and the right salary and the right location to help them match against it. The matching is still controlled by LinkedIn, but you know, owned by Microsoft.
Chad (24:56.656)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Fourlis (24:59.144)
with all the investment on AI and general AI going across Microsoft right now, I won't be surprised that, you know, we see, if we see on the candidate side of LinkedIn, we see leaps and bounds improvements. So why not the same kind of like improvements being on the employer side of the matching? I would be.
Chad (25:09.956)
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay.
Chad (25:19.834)
So if I am a smaller site or I am a startup that I'm getting into this space, LinkedIn and Indeed, they're trying to squeeze the entire market, right? And if I am in a specialty job board scenario, let's say it's tech, Indeed has already said that they are going after tech, right? How do I differentiate? How do I compete?
Joel (25:46.712)
Stay relevant.
Chad (25:47.085)
against these fucking monsters. mean, this is this I mean, and there are obviously tens of thousands of job boards that are actually out there. So so what's your advice to them other than get you know, get to get to maturation faster than they do?
Alex Fourlis (26:03.47)
Finally, I did a speech on this recently and I was invited by my first employer, that Greek job board to talk about how do they can compete on that same subject, right? You know, they are 800 pound gorillas. So you need to kind of like have a very clear plan as a job board, what you're doing around that. And for me, there's like two or three key questions that you need to answer. One is the tech stack. So if they want to integrate and go...
done funnel and I'm going to build an niche site, let's say focused on, you know, transportation and drivers. For example, just say, I need to think like how my tech stack will serve the candidate and the employer better than they do today. Right. So I need to be kind of very laser focused and seeing drivers, they use mobiles in like, you know,
Chad (26:49.328)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Fourlis (26:58.92)
So that should be my kind of like a go-to model of operations for the candidate. I need to think are they ATSs, are they providers that they kind of like focus on that market? You know, there is an ATS, I think it's called 10th Street, that's focusing on that market. Like how do I get a better integration there than, you know, what Indeed or LinkedIn have in place? Because I have to beat them on the tech stack. I need to provide more services. The second beyond the tech stack is the services, right?
They provide some content, know, and some reviews, for example, you know, can I do it better, like to service, you know, a very specific needs. need to, you know, I need to pick my fights, I think as a job board and say, okay, how can I provide the best possible content, right? For the Greek job board, that might means, you know, dominate the Greek language search, right? The dominating career content for...
the local language that they will never match, right? Versus English. But there needs to be like a focus in technology integrations, in services that I provide to the candidate and eventually to the employer first. we need to decide like, okay, where are the modes? And the third piece, I think it's like potential disruption that comes in the future from things like generative AI. How can I incorporate it? Because...
Chad (28:00.4)
Mm.
Alex Fourlis (28:26.108)
As a smaller player, you have that ability of incorporating new technology and new models a lot faster than some of these kind of like big platforms that have to kind of have a more like kind of a release process that takes time and takes more resources to evolve. So I think that's where you're trying to compete. You need to pick your mode. You need to pick your niche.
And I think from then on, it's services content and tech stack that you need to see how we did differentiate.
Joel (28:59.726)
So to piggyback a little bit on that, Alex, you talk about what maybe job boards or other sites need to do differently or how they can maybe think differently from the big elephants in the jungle. What are they doing wrong that they need to fix? I'm of the opinion that they've been their own worst enemy in many ways. Programmatic jobs are awful in many cases. You go to a career builder, search for a job.
Chad (29:20.695)
Yes.
Joel (29:27.618)
You're bounced around to four different sites. You got to go through a submission or registration. Like to me, that drives everyone to LinkedIn and indeed where they know they're not going to get that. They know they already have an account. They can easily click apply and get a, get an apply. Haven't job sites been their own worst enemy and shouldn't they correct some of that stuff?
Alex Fourlis (29:46.408)
Look, definitely, and I don't like to generalize. There are job sites that are doing an excellent job, right? Like if we look at what SICK is doing in Australia or what Carrier is doing in Turkey or Stepstone in areas of Europe, they have created their own kind of playbooks to defend on their market and on their niche, right? And I'm not just talking about this kind of, like we can talk about any sites that are doing extremely well in specific niches.
So yeah, I was in Carrier Builders, so I've seen also the other kind of extreme of how do you completely lose the plot? And I was in a product team at the time where we're reviewing things like LinkedIn, like Glassdoor, like other approaches, like Indeed. And we kind of like again and again, kind of I saw in front of me how the leadership could completely lose the plot on major disruptions in the industry. But at the same time, I have to...
We have to note the resilience of all these players, That we, know, many times, and I know about the four horsemen of the apocalypse and all that stuff, we predicted the end of job boards and we still, you know, finding new exciting job boards are doing great things that grow today, right? So I think you mentioned in the past, like, players, new players in the market that popping up anytime, like last year,
For us, we've seen some boards like Sonic Jobs, for example, doing really well, growing in this market. And we see it in the numbers, in our programmatic exchange that they're doing really well. So I'm sure there's going to be innovation from areas that we don't expect today, and that some of these players will find the solutions and will be thriving for the next years as well.
Chad (31:28.016)
Yeah.
Joel (31:38.222)
Well, that's good news, Alex, because we need shit to talk about. So we need these companies to stay relevant. Thanks.
Chad (31:41.734)
Hahaha!
Yes. And that being said, need to, we need to go ahead and wrap this up because we need to talk about, coming to Milos. So, if somebody wants to find out more about you connect with you and, or find out more about Veritone hire, where would you send them?
Alex Fourlis (31:53.95)
Definitely.
Alex Fourlis (32:01.5)
at veriton.com and for myself you can find me on LinkedIn.
Joel (32:08.108)
Alex Forliss everybody, the original Greek freak. Chad, that is another one in the can. We out.
Chad (32:14.841)
We out.