In this episode of the Chad and Cheese Podcast Joel and Chad are back to roast everything from Waymo’s self-driving cars (stealing Uber gigs!) to the meteoric rise of podcasting (yes, another one). They also dive into Spirit Halloween, the undead of retail, and the bloodbath between Indeed and ZipRecruiter for job board supremacy.
Things get juicy with layoffs at CareerBuilder and Monster post-merger (yay, "synergy"), plus Nomadic Learning's acquisition by Guild, which sounds like corporate Hogwarts for talent development. Oh, and guess what? MrBeast is now in the hiring game with Vouch—because why wouldn’t a YouTuber fix unemployment?
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Joel (00:33.048)
Two guys who have been to the desert on a horse with no name. Hi kids, it's the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your cohost, Joel Milton Cheeseman.
Chad (00:42.998)
This is Chad, podcaster on fire. So watch.
Joel (00:46.498)
And on this episode, Indeed Lawyers Up, Monster Bleeds, and Mr. Beast is coming to town. Let's do this.
Chad (00:53.614)
Woo!
Joel (00:59.876)
What's up, Chad? You're looking fresh and healthy and well rested. Love it.
Chad (01:02.638)
Look at this. yeah, look at this. Hey yeah, if you're watching on YouTube, you see these wonderful palm trees behind me. look at this. Look at that. yeah, that's Camelback. I think that's Camelback. Yeah, just got back from the gym. I'm hungry as hell. I'm excited about this podcast. It's a good time, man. It's a good time.
Joel (01:22.052)
Life is good for Mr. Sowash. Hey, have you seen the Waymo's here in town?
Chad (01:26.806)
They look fucking cool, dude. I mean, they're Jags, right? Jags or Porsche or something like that.
Joel (01:31.48)
Well, so I took my first ride in one. you had, have you had the pleasure?
Chad (01:34.654)
no, no no no.
Joel (01:37.966)
So we go to the airport and you see them drive by picking people up. just these cars with no driver. It takes a little second to use that. I never took one because they give us an Uber credit here at the Paradox event, which is very generous. But this time I called an Uber and Waymo was an option on Uber. So I'm like, sweet, I'm totally taking the Waymo. So it's very cool. It pulled up. There's a little roundabout at the hotel and you unlock the car with the app.
Chad (02:04.664)
you
Joel (02:07.62)
You get in, it says, welcome to Waymo, blah, blah, blah. It's a really nice, appealing voice. Now it got in trouble because it kept going around the roundabout. And on turn three, I roll down the window and I look at the valet guy and I go, is this normal? And he goes, yep. So I look like an idiot going in circles around this thing. I call the customer support and this voice.
Chad (02:18.114)
Ha ha.
Chad (02:26.562)
Ha!
Joel (02:35.192)
The voice of God comes down from the car and says, yes, sir. It looks like you're having some trouble. said, yeah, I'm going around in circles on this roundabout. It took control of the car. It figured it out, got me on the road and into my destination. But it, is the future. When you ride in it, it is like, this is the future. You can pick your music. It's very stress free. it's it, I didn't think it was too slow. A lot of people think it's too slow, but yes, if you get a chance to do a, the Waymo.
Chad (02:56.238)
That's awesome.
Joel (03:03.373)
Dance try not to be in a roundabout, but otherwise I am a I'm a big fan of the Waymo auto driving
Chad (03:11.95)
Yeah, definitely have to take one while I'm here. It looks like fun. I don't know if it's fun enough to go around in a cul-de-sac 27 different times. But dude, Scottsdale. Love Scottsdale. And before we get too crazy, I got to thank Jay-Z, Adam, the entire crew, but the real superstars. Let's just put it out there, kids. Jordan and Tyler, who made sure that you weren't sleeping. Made sure you weren't sleeping.
Joel (03:20.684)
You
Chad (03:40.054)
in an alley somewhere. And we had a full slate of amazing interviews for season two and three. That's right. You heard it kids of the AI sessions. Now, if you haven't heard or even watched the AI sessions, season one, go to the sessions.ai where we've pulled together four amazing interviews in 11 episodes. That's right. The Chad and Cheese are serving up practical business uses of AI in snackable ways at
Joel (03:41.852)
huh.
Chad (04:08.45)
the sessions.ai. We're just having a blast,
Joel (04:11.844)
Definitely having a blast, having a blast. You ready for some shout outs?
Chad (04:15.852)
Yeah, let me go ahead and continue riding that podcast train. So shout out to podcasts who are continuing to have a moment. It's like we've had a moment and it's continuing and hopefully it continues to continue. V.P. Kamala Harris is hitting the podcast circuit. Yeah, Cheeseman. There's a fucking podcast circuit. V.P. Harris was on the It's All About Smoke podcast with retired NBA pros Matt Barnes and Steven Jackson. And the big news was that
Joel (04:18.948)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (04:45.838)
The VP was on Call Her Daddy with Alex Cooper, who you might remember, she signed a three year, $60 million deal with Spotify. But she's fly. She has fly. And then...
Joel (05:00.196)
Spotify, Spotify, not Spotify, that's the, yeah, she is fly, super fly.
Chad (05:06.906)
VP candidate Tim Walls, your buddy from next door, he was on the Smart List podcast with Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and Will Arnett. While, and this is all while, Trump snubs 60 minutes. So the big networks are getting snubbed and podcasts are taking the message to the people. Shout out to podcasts continuing to have a moment. Yes!
Joel (05:10.875)
huh, yeah.
Joel (05:17.092)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (05:28.676)
Shout out to podcast, shout out to podcast. So a quick reminder, our shout outs are sponsored by our friends at Kiora. Simple text recruiting everybody there.
Chad (05:35.138)
Go!
Joel (05:41.73)
That's right. That's right. You're learning about them more on our giveaways segment of shout outs. My shout out goes to Spirit Halloween. don't know if you do still Halloween Chad, you're in Portugal. You probably don't dress up anymore. That's probably something in the past, but yeah. Yeah, it's still a thing. And you've probably seen the Spirit Halloween store pop up at your local neighborhood. Well, was pretty interested at what is going on with this business. Turns out
Chad (05:55.057)
Not in Portugal, not in Portugal, but there's stores everywhere for God's sakes in the US.
Joel (06:11.544)
This company that sets up shop for two months out of the year makes $650 million a year basically doing business for two months. have 1,450 locations that pop up all around the country, which is nearly as many stores, Chad, as Target, one of your favorites. So anyway.
Chad (06:32.066)
Holy fuck.
Joel (06:33.438)
SNL always being a good laugh about pop culture and what's going on in society. Had a really funny skit on Spirit Halloween. Let's check that out real quick.
Chad (07:10.456)
Thank God.
Chad (07:37.368)
Yes.
Joel (07:47.332)
where murder happened.
Joel (07:54.094)
Hahaha.
Chad (08:10.926)
No.
Joel (08:11.076)
You
Chad (08:46.702)
You
Chad (09:06.19)
Yeah. Ours is a bed bath and beyond at this point.
Joel (09:10.978)
Yeah, yeah, Bed Bath & Beyond. Shout out to Spirit Halloween stores employing people for six weeks every year, every year. Not nearly as good as some of the free shit that we're giving away, Chad, by the way.
Chad (09:23.316)
No, of course not. Of course not. have, as we talked about, Kiora is giving away not just maple syrup, but bourbon barrel, pappy, aged maple syrup. That's right. The boys from the Great White North at Kiora, they love you and they also love texting. Then we've got beer, craft beer from our friends at Aspen Tech Labs. That's right. We actually deliver. We don't personally, but it does get delivered to your doorstep.
Joel (09:38.692)
Yeah.
Joel (09:51.821)
Yep.
Chad (09:52.974)
craft beer from Aspen Tech Labs, whiskey delivered to your doorstep by our friends at Text Kernel, two bottles of whiskey, one from Chad, one from Cheese, and our friends at Bullhorn. And if it's your birthday, it's time for some rum from Plum. You can do this at chadcheese.com slash free. Gotta play to win, kids.
Yeah.
Joel (10:19.14)
That's right, Chad. Some happy listeners are celebrating another trip around the sun. includes Mark Jenkins, Daniel Fellows, Jameson Stark, Tom Hannon, Carla Dewey-Goings, Todd Duclos, Tom Stone Lake, Rob McFalls, Gemma Hartley-Ribero, and Christine Friedrich. Happy birthday to all those celebrating another birthday around the sun. And where are we traveling to next, Chad? Geez, we're always on the.
Chad (10:35.724)
There we go.
Chad (10:46.762)
Well, travels are powered by Shaker recruitment marketing. This is the last event that we have. We're here now at the Paradox event. have our last event of 2024. We are heading to New Orleans for Outsolve's brand spanking new HR gumbo event. Great content.
We're on stage with Keith Sonderling talking about compliance and AI. Guru, our buddy from Fair AI is gonna be there. Gonna be rooftop parties. We're gonna be at the World War II Museum. I mean, there's a lot that's going on. We're excited about it. And again, it's their very, very first time doing the HR gumbo. So we can't wait to go.
Joel (11:17.156)
this.
Joel (11:31.31)
Love it. And speaking of exciting chat, that's right. It's time for our fantasy football update sponsored by our friends at factory fix. It's a tale of two cities. I'm one city and chans the other number one. And the number one spot we got David more like Goliath, Steve full. He's here at the conference by the way. He's so excited. It's first thing he said to me. number two, your boy right here. Number two, number two in the two spot put, put
Chad (11:35.118)
Woo!
Chad (11:38.925)
Not happy.
Chad (11:43.469)
Yes.
Chad (11:50.614)
He's so excited. He's so excited. Yeah.
Chad (11:59.053)
What?
Joel (11:59.864)
put this got in his place by the way the sky was getting a little too big for his britches we had to we had to take him down a notch dean daddy mackerel the australian whirlwind is at the number three spot action jackson dalquist number four i mentioned adam gordon that's right adam gordon
Chad (12:01.474)
There it is.
and cocky.
Joel (12:24.472)
Well, that number five spot is a little crappy, Adam. You need to step up your game a little bit. Number six, got Jennifer Aniston, Terry Tharp. Keith, the commish, Sonderling in the number seven spot. Chad, you're coming in at the number eight spot. That's kind of a so, so, so wash position. Number nine, Laura Dern, Martinelli, followed by Dean Perot for Pyro, sorry, Dina Perot for Pyro. Number 11, Christie Lisbon, Portugal, and hitting up the rear.
Chad (12:40.248)
Yeah.
Joel (12:53.294)
Sean Horton hears a who, that's right, and that is your fantasy football update everybody as we head into week number six. By the way, I have the Aussie this week, so if I can take out the two internationals back to back, think all the Americans will be really happy, happy about that. But let's get to the news, shall we?
Chad (13:01.816)
hitting up the rear. Factory fix kids, factory fix.
Chad (13:10.958)
Chad (13:15.438)
Here's a sniper.
Joel (13:23.96)
That's right. hot off the presses, Chad, hot off the presses. Indeed is suing ZipRecruiter for allegedly misleading statements about Indeed ending free postings, which ZipRecruiter denies by the way, claiming fair competition. Indeed clarifies it still offers free postings, but with new conditions to avoid duplicates. Chad, let's get ready to rumble. Zip versus Indeed, what you got?
Chad (13:53.166)
So this from our friends over at the AIM group, they wrote an article, quote, being ZipRecruiter, find it surprising that Indeed would take this step instead of working to address the widespread confusion brought about by their rollout of recent policy changes, end quote. So in my opinion, and apparently others feel the same, Indeed has rolled out several half-baked products and policy changes, no matter.
If Indeed is suing Zip due to emails and LinkedIn posts, you know they are feeling the heat from somewhere. So it begs the question, does Indeed feel like a wounded animal at this point? And if they're not, they're sure acting like one. So this feels like amateur hour by Indeed. Zip Recruiter is living rent-free in Indeed's head. And so are we, by the way, so are we. I'm waiting for the papers in the mail.
Joel (14:46.68)
Yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, I was glad this was a zip recruiters lawsuit and not the Chad and cheese lawsuit, which would really be desperation on indeed's part. By the way, Chad, I got my crystal ball out and found the judgment on this case before it even comes out.
Chad (15:06.018)
Good day, sir!
Joel (15:08.462)
So let's see what happened here. Indeed, kind of ends free postings, but apparently kind of didn't. ZipRecruiter took the opportunity to put social media posts. Their salespeople probably made calls and sent emails saying, indeed's done with free postings. Come on over to ZipRecruiter and feel the love. Indeed, in fashion, similarly to what LinkedIn does, let's just sue them out of business and scare the hell out of people.
Chad (15:36.514)
Yeah.
Joel (15:36.676)
Indeed is alleging that these statements by ZipRecruiter violate what's called the Lanham Act. Lanham Act, you can Google it if you want to. Aiming to poach Indeed's customers through misinformation. That's right, it's good enough for politics, but not good enough for corporate America. I envision, I predict this will get settled out of court. It won't go anywhere. It might even get dismissed.
But the fact that Indeed is worried about dollars draining from them over to Zippercurter, I think we both agree that's a real desperate looking act. Indeed should not be in the business of suing lesser competitors looking to shut them the fuck up.
Chad (16:13.74)
It is.
Chad (16:20.78)
You make Zipper Critter look like an alpha at this point, Emails in LinkedIn posts? Are you fucking kidding me? I mean, is that what you got? Is that what you got? Seriously. So the whole disinformation thing, I think it's very simple for Zipper Critter literally to go just down the last year, year and a half and show all of the policy changes, updates. mean, one of the things that indeed has been really bad about
Joel (16:29.081)
Yeah.
Chad (16:49.494)
is being able to roll out product, be able to do it in a very easy manner that people can understand. And in this case, really what Indeed did, and it makes sense, if your jobs are already in the system because we're going to your site and we're pulling those jobs into the system, we're not going to allow your free job to pop up, Makes sense. But guess what? If you can't message and you're not articulate enough and simple enough to the people, this is the shit that's going to happen. So this is on Indeed.
And kudos to Zippercouter for pretty much smacking them around because they look like the bigger ... They're not the bigger site, guys. Let's just be clear about this, but they look like the bigger one at this point. They're the alpha. They're the bully, and indeed is pretty much crying in a corner saying, I'm going to send mommy after you.
Joel (17:38.768)
huh. The real question, Chad, is what are the odds that you and or I get pulled into court to testify how much bullshit indeed stuff is what?
Chad (17:46.094)
dude, got volumes. Volumes.
Joel (17:50.296)
Yeah. The odds are good that Chad and cheese could take, take the stand in the indeed versus zip recruiter lawsuit, which would be social media gold. Traffic would spike in new ways. Okay. From one, from one miserable story to the next. Let's talk. geez. We haven't done one of these in a while, but let's talk a little layoffs.
Chad (18:06.049)
yeah.
Joel (18:17.112)
That's right. When career builder and monster merged back in July under the Apollo banner, Chad, you and I both predicted layoffs were coming. We predicted pain, if you will fast forward today and it's looking like the pink slips are a flying. One anonymous online comment said, quote, got the email this morning, unsure of what or how many were laid off and in what departments it was inevitable with the merger. Chad, you were getting info on this pretty early on.
What are your thoughts and do you have any other insights?
Chad (18:49.314)
Yeah, so it seems to be across all departments, but mainly on the monster side. There might be some career builder here and there, but I mean, if you think about it, this is about redundancies because you've got two companies that are literally the same, right? So what kind of redundancies do you have? And since Apollo slash career builder is taking the lead on this and literally
Ronstadt just they just walked away. They don't care. They just walked away. They're like, whatever money you have, whatever kind of, you know, quarters or pocket change you have after, go ahead and send it to us. But the rumors are mostly that Monster employees were cut. This shouldn't be a surprise as Apollo will strip any redundancies. Period. Monster was already a carcass of a company and it's going to get worse. The big question is, will they actually choose a technology?
and then utilize that technology for both sites just to be able to, again, get away from redundancies. Probably not, because if they have two sets of databases, two technologies, then from a valuation standpoint, they'll actually be worth more if they have two together as opposed to smashing them together as one. So as you said, when they asked Klobber Lang what his prediction was for the fight, he had one word, pain.
Joel (20:15.092)
Pain. That's right. That's right.
Chad (20:16.152)
pain.
Joel (20:19.864)
And speaking of redundancies, Chad, the first one to go was the CEO. In the moment that Mr. Scott Gutz hit the road, people should have seen some writing on the wall. In fact, when this deal went down, I said the following, Apollo gutted career builder, the going to gut monster as well. So if you're employed by monster, keep that in mind and update your resume, end quote. By the way, if you think this stuff is over, think again. This is the Apollo Playbook.
Chad (20:25.773)
guts.
Joel (20:48.1)
a lot of these firings were probably in hopes that a lot of people would resign that they would be sick of the bullshit see the writing on the wall get the hell out of dodge those that do not resign they want resignations so they don't pay unemployment all little benefits that come with getting laid off yes severance or whatnot so for those that don't leave they'll be another round of layoffs for the people that they wanted to go they'll pinch they'll pinch this thing but it is much out of it as a possibly can bill
Chad (21:03.736)
Yeah.
Joel (21:16.322)
make a ton of money. Randstad will make money because they own part of this turkey. And then as I predict, they'll buy ZipRecruiter and do the same thing with ZipRecruiter. And they'll keep going until there are no more job boards left, I guess. Now the irony, the irony, did you know Monster has an official Instagram account?
Chad (21:40.557)
It doesn't surprise me, but what's going on? What's going on?
Joel (21:41.868)
No, nobody knew this, but apparently they do. And call it, this is so funny, back in September, late September, they actually put up a video about what to do if you're laid off at work. I want you to take a look at this video that was put up a few weeks ago by the official Monster Instagram site.
Joel (22:31.62)
That's you.
Joel (22:38.734)
That's you.
Joel (22:43.204)
There you go.
Joel (22:52.952)
What?
Chad (22:56.43)
Hello?
Joel (23:12.3)
I don't know. Was this, was this front running the layoffs? Like they wanted to give like.
Chad (23:16.781)
That's foretelling. Foretelling, right? Yeah. Just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could tell that the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. Not to mention, I'm gonna go ahead and pimp a podcast that came out, I think it was last week, called An Employment Pro's Job Search Journey. Allison King, who is the VP of People Operations now at Sound Physicians, she actually had a great interview with us.
Joel (23:20.59)
How stupid. okay.
Joel (23:34.83)
huh.
Chad (23:44.582)
and talking about how she went along the job search, went about the job search. So if you're one of those monsters out there, definitely listen to that Instagram, but then go to Chad and Cheese and listen to Allison because she puts out some amazing, amazing practical ways to go after that next job.
Joel (24:02.158)
For sure, for sure. And how ironic would it be if number four, the act where you got to give 60 day notice, wasn't fulfilled and these idiots get sued over the information on the Instagram posts that they put out two weeks before, laying people off. right. Hopefully this show gets a little smarter as we keep going. Cause I'm not sure it can get much dumber. when we get back, we'll talk about a recent acquisition.
Chad (24:14.37)
Whoops. Oops.
Chad (24:22.795)
Doubtful.
Joel (24:31.948)
All right, Chad, let's talk a little acquisitions, shall we? Guild has acquired Nomadic Learning and introduced Guild Talent Advantage aimed at enhancing talent development through comprehensive education and skilling solutions. Founded back in 2012 and totally bootstrapped, Nomadic Learning employed 19 folks before the merger. Chad, what's your thoughts on this marriage?
Chad (24:36.237)
Yes.
Chad (24:59.544)
Guild just went full service. That's what happened. Guild is employed by Fortune 1000 companies to manage their education assistant benefits. So Guild works for employers to facilitate direct payments for courses to education providers for their employees. Guild, this is a smart brokering play, and you and I both love this. I think I can say that. So with the acquisition of Nomadic,
Guild can now broker education for your employees. And this is the important part. They can deliver education to those employees now. So it's more of a full service kind of play. You might ask yourself, Chad, why is this even necessary? Well, kids, decades ago, most employers stopped
stopped major investments in upskilling and developing their employees, which created what we now know as the skills gap. And today it's actually not as much of a skills gap as it is a fucking skills chasm. Employers are having problems curbing attrition, driving productivity, which all leads or should lead to more revenue. So since this short sighted company stance happened,
which stopped major investments in their people in the development. mean, saw a huge, huge opportunity in the brokering and it just made sense. Now, again, they turned full service. They can do the brokering, they can get those things out there, they can make sure that the upskilling starts to happen. You start to, instead of widen the skills gap, you start to try to close that skills gap. They went full service and that kids is what I call a happy ending.
Chad (26:44.385)
You
Joel (26:45.476)
that was very insightful, Chad. I appreciate that. look, this is a win-win. I mentioned Nomadic Learning was entirely bootstrap. There's no record in Crunchbase of them getting any money whatsoever. so the, the, so more than likely the owners of this company.
Chad (26:58.584)
Yep. 2012, man, they've been around for a while.
Joel (27:07.744)
are ringing the cash register. Look, Guild is an Apex predator in this industry. And when things get little herky jerky, the economy, whatever, the Apex predator goes feeding. Guild has raised $643 million. That buys a lot of beer and it buys a lot of companies that took no venture capital money. And this
Chad (27:34.029)
Yeah.
Joel (27:36.013)
Company's 12 years old. There's a good chance the founder was maybe ready for something new. I'm pretty sure in the release it talked about that he was going to be on the advisory board or he wasn't going to be like a big part of what was going on. Someone else was going to sort of take the product side of it. So he cashes out, he leaves whoever invested early on, they're going to cash out. Guild gets rid of a competitor. They add clients from nomadic learning into their fold.
Take out a competitor, add new services, add maybe new A players that are at Nomadic Learning into this fold. I don't think this is an earthquake of an acquisition, but it looks like a smart acquisition. It looks like a reasonable acquisition. Nobody was swinging for the fences or throwing spaghetti at the wall. I am also pretty bullish on this acquisition. Well done. Well done, Guild.
Chad (28:31.778)
I see more. I see more, dude. I see them looking for fish like this and picking off more little fish because again, the brokering piece was just where they started. They can become even more full service. think that is just, that's exciting, right? And they're also starting to use AI or they're going to use AI to actually build courses inside. That's going to be interesting, right? That's going to be interesting.
Joel (28:55.556)
Totally agree. And I think I can increase your interest level, Chad, with little TikTok news. I know you love the TikTok news. They're still around, although you've been bet that they wouldn't be. You ready to go for 2025? think Jim Durbin's ready to bet another bottle of bourbon on whether TikTok will be around for another year. Anyway, ByteDance, the owner of TikTok, has launched ByteSpider, an aggressive web caller.
Chad (29:01.932)
Yeah, Yeah, yeah.
Ha ha ha ha!
Chad (29:12.974)
yeah. This is gonna be interesting. Yeah, it's gonna be interesting.
Joel (29:25.412)
web crawler to rapidly gather data for AI training, potentially enhancing TikTok's features amid US regulatory threats. This web crawler is scraping data 25 times faster. Let me say that again, 25 times faster than OpenAI's GPT bot and 3000 times faster than Anthropics' Quadbot, according to research by Kasada. Chad, your thoughts on the juggernaut called TikTok.
Chad (29:55.032)
So you gotta ask yourself, why is Bite Spider going into crawling overdrive like this? Because what's the reason for it? So last April, President Biden signed a ban pretty much forcing TikTok to sell within the next year when he actually signed it. So they weren't banned, but they've gotta be sold or they will be banned. So think about it. If TikTok is banned or sold,
ByteDance loses American user data. What the hell was ByteDance going to do with that data? Well, short term, it could influence buying habits, daily behaviors, or just nudge someone into becoming a lover of authoritarian governments like, I don't know, China or Russia or something like that. We saw this with Cambridge Analytica and Facebook when
that turned into a hellscape during the 2016 election. So it works and they know it works. But that's just a short term side of the house. What about using all the data and feeding a much larger, large language model through these feeds from TikTok on a daily basis? Well, they could prospectively lose that too. They're looking to compete with OpenAI, Google, Microsoft and Amazon. using the massive amounts of daily flowing, freely
data from TikTok could prospectively go away. So I think what they're doing is they're setting up their contingencies. If they do get sold under the types of, know, the types of terms, Google's listening.
Joel (31:33.444)
Google is listening,
Chad (31:36.056)
Google's listening. Yeah, it's my phone, kids. I said Google and then it started doing. But anyway, so yeah, whatever the terms and conditions are, right, they could be happy with them or maybe not. And maybe they do look at for a short time, a short period of time pulling out of the US, right? But I don't see that as a long-term scheme for them, but it would be a long-term scheme if they're owned by a US company, they know they're not gonna get that TikTok data. So how are they gonna get it?
Joel (31:41.953)
Anarchy.
Chad (32:03.97)
they've got to go into overdrive with Bytespider.
Joel (32:06.84)
That's interesting. By the way, you got a call by Google. I got a text from Durbin saying he's not going to bet again. He's not fallen for the banana in the tailpipe this year. That's an interesting take. My take on this is that there's blood in the water. Google has done a poor job of keeping the wolves at bay.
Chad (32:30.538)
At bay.
Joel (32:32.932)
they've not sort of hit it out of the park. I think a lot of people thought they would, th th their AI, Gemini is not catching fire. like I think they thought it would look, the search advertising business is a $300 billion a year business. And if you see the alpha, you know, the apex predator injured, like not performing, you can bet your ass.
The wolves are going to come for you and we're seeing open AI. We're seeing a perplexity, perplexly just launched advertising as part of their, when you see results and you can bet your ass, everybody wants a piece of this $300 billion business and bite dance and Tik Tok are no different. I don't know how much of banning in America or having regulation be a part of this. think it's just a matter of like, look, the faster we go.
the less chance Google has to recuperate, to lick its wounds and get back in the game. This is blood in the water. The sharks are out and they're going to do everything that they can to start taking pieces out of the T-Rex's pie and TikTok meta perplexity. Everyone that's in this game, you're going to see start adding advertising. You're going to see advertising start slowing down for pay per click, market share. There was a story in the wall street journal.
about how Google is sort of losing search share. People are searching on AI before they are Google. I know I'm in that universe. I use Google much less than I used to. So this is a blood in the water scenario. TikTok has the big guns to come after Google as does a of these other players. And it's going to be really interesting to see if Google can recuperate and come back. But right now looks like they're going to get their lunch eaten by a lot of big players that are coming after them.
Chad (34:26.808)
I think all of that can be true all at once. And I think that there's so many contingencies that you have to have in place, but you can't deny the amount of data that TikTok supplies.
By dance on a daily basis and by dance building those large language models. They can't can't they can't sit around and think that they're going to be there, especially from the US. So yeah, but I still believe and again, I'm going to go back to what I said last week. I think the big companies, the Microsoft, the Amazons, the Googles who have operating systems, they have cloud companies, cloud services. They're going to play Major League Baseball.
Joel (34:42.212)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (35:07.628)
where OpenAI is playing the small ball and they're going to actually infuse the large language models and those bots into their clouds. much like one day I remember when cloud computing, what the hell is this cloud computing? Now everybody uses it. It's just a part of the infrastructure of what we do. This will supercharge that infrastructure and that's just gonna be step one. So I think these big companies are thinking much bigger.
Joel (35:11.278)
Yeah.
Chad (35:34.958)
than $22 per month like OpenAI, but I think China is also thinking just as big. And they know that they have to try to get ahead of not just Google, but all of these other companies incredibly fast.
Joel (35:47.97)
Yeah. mean, look at every business, look at businesses over the years where bigger players have fell asleep. didn't like, they didn't take whether it's search, social, mobile. Yeah. Our space with, with, with vertical search, they don't want to lose again in a market with this kind of potential size. Everybody wants a slice of the meatloaf, Chad.
Chad (35:53.993)
yeah. Monster. Career builder. Yeah. Yeah.
Chad (36:11.749)
Man, I'm hungry. Let's do this.
Joel (36:13.186)
All right, man, let's take a quick break and we'll talk about for the first time ever on the show, Mr. Beast.
Joel (36:23.684)
All right, Chad, MrBeast, one of the most influential YouTubers on the planet, has acquired Vouch, a hiring platform for creators to improve talent acquisition in the creator economy. The new URL, in case you're interested, is mrbeastjobs.com, how 2007 of them. Chad, what are your thoughts on MrBeast coming into employment?
Chad (36:50.04)
So is that one up and running? Because when I went to it, there was nothing there. And I was like, why? Well, from what the story said, Mr. Beast plans to use Vouch to supercharge internal hiring efforts before continuing to scale it externally. And I thought, wow, that's fucking selfish. But I mean, anyways, this could be an interesting niche community.
I've never used Vouch, so I don't know what the capabilities are, but if creators listen to MrBeast and they want to become one of MrBeast's content creators, or they want to do projects for MrBeast, this is a great place to go.
And then if your other companies are like, hey, this is where all the content creators are going. They're looking for Mr. Beast. That's a draw. He's huge from a content standpoint. If that's where content creators are going, maybe we should go there too. So I think the draw of Mr. Beast, not to mention of having more jobs than just Mr. Beast jobs, will actually make this or at least give this an opportunity to be more like a gig platform, you know?
Hey, I might want to work for Mr. Beast. I see some projects on here. I'm going to take on some of those projects while I wait for Mr. Beast. I think this is too easy. I do it. I do it every day. Yeah. Yeah.
Joel (38:11.202)
Yeah, okay.
Joel (38:17.282)
Okay, so what I know of Mr. Beast, he gives away a lot of money and people watch, people get a lot of money. He'll have competitions, people win a ton of stuff. He does really crazy, crazy, kooky stuff and kids love it. My teens watch, Mr. Beast and watch Mr. Beast. You know I'm a history guy, okay? History is our best determination of what's going to happen in the future. History does not like celebrities,
Chad (38:21.262)
Mm.
Chad (38:37.229)
Yes.
Joel (38:47.012)
people with brands outside of our space come into the space and think they can can figure it out. Okay. Seth Godin, a marketing icon has launched job sites, one called Lynch pen. It's gone. he harmony thought they could do jobs and matching better. They're gone. Elon is going to kill LinkedIn. That'll be gone someday. I think Gary V did some stuff around employment. Look, there's no historical data that says Mr. Beast.
is gonna be like a juggernaut in the creator community, gigging and finding things that are going on. Look, he's having too much fun. One of his new competitions is twins competing against each other for $250,000. That is way more fun than figuring out like pricing for clicks on a job or like whatever. he is gonna get so bored with this business so quickly, it'll make your head spin.
Chad (39:37.826)
Diversification, diversification.
Joel (39:45.252)
Unless someone is in charge that gives a shit. I don't see this going anywhere. You mentioned gig economy. Those are struggling right now. Upwork is down. Stock is down 28 % year to date. Fiverr is down 10 % year to date. We've seen companies like Kimino who we love and love the founder. They have not set the world on fire. This is a tough business. Make the money in YouTube. Do the things that you know. That's going to be a lot better.
Chad (40:09.208)
That's tough.
Joel (40:14.532)
use of your time than this business.
Chad (40:19.744)
I think Mr. Beast should call the job board doctor and I think it'll all be okay.
Joel (40:24.236)
Yeah, give a bucket of give it a give a cat bucket of money bag of money to Chad team. So wash at the job or doctor. That's a much that's a much better. And if you want to, if you want to, if you want to kill this podcast, hopefully he does that and Chad walks away from everything and never do that to me. That's right. just like I should just stick to podcasting and not to, bad jokes, Chad. Am I right? Am I right?
Chad (40:32.676)
Julie mostly, yeah.
Chad (40:40.982)
I would never do that to you.
Chad (40:51.792)
I know I keep saying that yes
Joel (40:54.22)
Okay, here we go. It's October, which means it's Halloween. Let's stick with some Halloween-based jokes. Are you ready?
Joel (41:04.792)
Where does a ghost go on vacation?
Chad (41:08.386)
Boozeville
Joel (41:09.602)
Malibu! What does a panda ghost eat? What does a panda's ghost eat?
Chad (41:19.65)
Bamboo!
Joel (41:20.812)
Yay! You got that one. Alright, why did the ghost go into the bar?
Chad (41:29.21)
I don't know, I should know this one. I don't know. Yes, damn it! It was all boo-centric.
Joel (41:31.268)
For the booze, for the booze. Enjoy that sunshine, Chad. Get some lunch. I will see you later, my friend. We out.
Chad (41:41.453)
We out.
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