In this episode, Joel and Chad dig into a ton of tech news with a new segment called 'Big Mac or Nothing Burger' where they evaluate the significance topic by topic.
Big Mac or Nothing Burger
- Indeed charges $3 per API call
and ending up with McDonald's once again blaming the economy for its woes.
Get ready for technology trends, advertising strategies, market competition, consumer behavior, and Canada Joel!
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION (AI made me do it)
Joel (00:25.867)
yeah, one guy in Canada and the other in Portugal. Poutine and calamari for everybody. Hey, boys and girls, this is the Chat and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co -host, Joel Trudeau Cheeseman.
Chad Sowash (00:44.032)
This is Chad, stay away from my couch. Soosh.
Joel (00:47.497)
And on this episode, Indeed calls, ZipRecruiter texts, and Heineken swallows. Let's do this.
Chad Sowash (01:00.744)
So you're in a new place there, Joel. How's, is that couch pretty sexy?
Joel (01:04.543)
Yeah. If you're, yeah. Well, if you're, if you're watching on YouTube, Chad thought this was my back of my chair, which looks like some Dr. Evil, captain Kirk chair, but no, it's an optical illusion, that you can see there, but, yeah. The JD Vance I still don't get it. you were telling me like he was dry humping a couch. I, I don't know, but then, and then on a group chat, you, made fun of me saying that I look like JD Vance. So I appreciate.
Chad Sowash (01:14.39)
It does.
Chad Sowash (01:18.73)
It is, is.
Chad Sowash (01:28.726)
Like growing up.
Joel (01:33.999)
I that. will say that both, and I both perfected the no beard, chubby lesbian look. So pre -beard JD Vance, chubby lesbian, just like me. So the beard does do him well. It does do him well. By the way, the white dudes for Kamala, were you on the Zoom call with all the other white dudes in the world?
Chad Sowash (01:43.382)
Yeah. No, knock that out of the park.
Chad Sowash (01:48.32)
Yeah.
It does, it does.
Chad Sowash (01:57.836)
Dude, it was like 2 a my time, because I was like excited. I'm like, fuck yeah, I can't wait to get on this thing. And I look at him like, this is fucking 2 a I got to work tomorrow. But yeah, I mean, apparently like, you know, 100, over 100 ,000 fucking white dudes on raised million, you know, well over a million dollars. like, you know, shit ton of black women had their own, white women had their own. mean, they're really mobilizing in an incredibly smart way. And I think only
Joel (02:10.869)
Yeah, yeah.
Joel (02:19.061)
Mm -hmm.
Chad Sowash (02:27.688)
Obama mobilized like this when we first saw kind of like a social mobilization and he was really the first president to use the internet to be able to use the internet to mobilize. And we really haven't seen really haven't seen presidents do that sense.
Joel (02:42.952)
Do you remember Howard Dean, the woo guy, we're going to go to Texas. So he was one of the first back in the early 2000s to utilize meetup for politics and his communications director, I think, wrote a book back in the day called The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, all about how the internet was going to change, how we do politics. And before
Chad Sowash (02:46.377)
yeah. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (02:57.789)
okay.
Chad Sowash (03:07.476)
out.
Joel (03:10.987)
there was a book called vote .com, that sort of, theorize the day where we would vote online and we wouldn't go to the polls. Obviously that hasn't come true, but yeah, certainly some books have been written and Howard Dean with meetup .com, but why someone hasn't figured out, let's just have a big zoom call with supporters and get some celebrities or people to talk about why something is important. And then of course, make it cute with white dudes for Kamala. that's, that's clever.
Chad Sowash (03:11.296)
Yes.
Chad Sowash (03:32.015)
yeah.
Joel (03:39.659)
But yeah, anytime technology is used to mobilize people and politically or whatever, I'm all for it. I'm over the whole big rally thing and like, give me some technology to get people involved.
Chad Sowash (03:55.36)
So it's funny because Gil Scott Heron, might not know him, but he's a singer activist. Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't, you're a white dude. He actually, he's saying the revolution will not be televised. He's a black dude, activist. So anybody listening, go to, literally go to Spotify or go to YouTube and look for the revolution will not be televised. You'll love it. I mean, it's really good
Joel (03:59.391)
No clue.
Chad Sowash (04:23.704)
Anyway, anyway, sidetrack, sidetrack. Howard Dean, imagine that. Gil Scott, Heron, and Howard Dean, probably polar opposites. But the Olympics. So talk to me about the Olympics. What's going on? What are you saying?
Joel (04:30.475)
That's what we do on this show, chat. That's what we do on this
Joel (04:36.683)
Well, let's start with the opening ceremonies. shall we? not a more French thing I've seen in a long time. I love, mean, the last supper is getting a lot of heat, obviously from, the usual suspects for me, the highlight was the Marie Antoinette, like head off the body, singing the intro and then going into like, don't know, maybe, you know, this band, I'm sure they're popular in France and Europe, but
Chad Sowash (04:42.056)
Okay. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (04:48.085)
as we've done.
Chad Sowash (04:58.603)
that was awesome. Yeah.
Joel (05:06.109)
I know who I do that they're like Metallica, Parisian, the Parisian Metallica goes off like rocks out fire everywhere. that was, that was to me, the highlight. haven't seen much of the competition. know, I know, Biles killed it. I know the gymnastics team, has crushed it. The U S has the most gold medals. That's kind of all I know. I bet you've been watching a lot more closely than I
Chad Sowash (05:12.372)
Fucking awesome. it awesome. Yes. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (05:32.284)
Yeah, because we're at the bar a lot. So first to talk about the Last Supper because it was not the Last Supper. Why do Christians always have to bring it back to them? Like it's them being, you know, them being the one on defense. my God, it was not the Last Supper. It was not the Last Supper, okay? It was actually Dionysus and it's more on Greek mythology than it is anything with Christianity. So let's just go ahead and get it out
That's that's one thing the Olympics wise, men's basketball, they're on a tear, man. They're fucking killing it. Katie Ledecky killed it last night. She won by 10 seconds. She didn't even break her own world record, but she she did. She killed it. The women's gymnastics team, as you said, look awesome. But one thing that is killing me, though, is that we are getting smoked in the pool. The US usually by now are, you know, our totals are looking good, but the amount of
Not so much. We usually have a ton of golds from swimming. We don't. French swimmer Marchand last night landed two gold medals within two hours and he wasn't swimming hundreds and they weren't freestyle. He won the 200 meter butterfly and the 200 meter breaststroke. Those are hard fucking races. He did it two the same day. Two gold medals.
Chad Sowash (07:01.39)
We did. We did.
Joel (07:01.683)
That that's awful. I love it when our basketball team is on a mission. I love when they hear like the international game is catching up and certainly the national players are great. But I just love it when the good like when the players show up. I'm sure you've probably seen the Netflix Redeem team documentary where after losing in the Olympics, like Kobe and company were like, no, this ain't happening next time. And they bear down
Chad Sowash (07:30.304)
Yeah.
Joel (07:31.592)
and do it all. yeah, I'm glad you're enjoying the Olympics. Have we seen anything on viewership? Is viewership up down? Do we have any idea? There's a trend that says the kids aren't watching.
Chad Sowash (07:41.136)
I do know that they, I do know that they've set advertising records. So advertising, so the monetization and the revenue side of the house is working. So, I mean, that, that usually means that they've got some, some, some good viewers, but you know, at the end of the day, I, I don't know what it'll come out. It'll come out in the wash and it's the Olympics people watch, you know, so who knows? Who knows?
Joel (08:06.155)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And as we get further down and the metal rounds and all that stuff, it'll increase.
Chad Sowash (08:14.22)
especially track and field.
Joel (08:16.467)
Yes, that's probably my favorite event. Unless like Michael Phelps is swimming and like he was just a beast. But anyway, shall we get to shout outs? Shall we get to shout outs from opposite sides of the world?
Chad Sowash (08:22.56)
Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So some but somebody else who's a beast and in a good way in a good way, Athena carp, who was appointed GM hired score at workday after workdays acquisition of higher score back in February of this year. So not to my surprise because
Workday needs Athena more than Athena needs Workday to be quite frank. Workday doesn't have much in AI and trust, right? And Athena is one of the best in the AI game of explainability and dependability, which Workday just plainly is, they're just not good at. So congrats to Athena and also to Workday because they obviously see that they have a winner there. They bought a great tech and they've got a great voice.
that is now there. So Athena Carp gets appointed to GM of Hired Score over at Workday. Good for both of
Joel (09:22.987)
Very nice. Very nice. Do you think Athena likes, likes Halloween, Chad? You think she likes a good Halloween getup? Yeah. Halloween may have gone too far though. My first shout out goes to what's being dubbed summer wean. Summer wean. Yeah, that sounds like just a good Saturday night, but no summer wean is the unfortunate, growth of the Halloween holiday into summer. That's right. Target.
Chad Sowash (09:27.676)
I... Who doesn't? Who doesn't like Halloween?
Chad Sowash (09:38.828)
That's crazy. That's crazy.
Joel (09:51.957)
Home Depot, Lowe's, all your favorite retailers have already put out their Halloween merchandise and it's not even August yet. I think it's a little too much. know that we love, we love our purchasing. We love our consumerism in America, but to me it's just gone too far. You got to wait till after Labor Day to start rocking the Halloween decorations at your favorite retailer. So for me, like shout out to the people who love Halloween, but for me it's just, it's
Chad Sowash (10:03.989)
I don't get
Joel (10:21.087)
It's just too damn much, Chad. We're going too deep. We're going too deep on Halloween.
Chad Sowash (10:27.734)
So the next one comes from our friends over at HR great vine .com. Shout out to Apple unions are apparently paying off Apple and the union representing retail workers at a store in Maryland have agreed to a landmark deal. The very first US labor agreement not only for Apple stores, but for any Apple workers in the US. The tentative three year agreement includes scheduling improvements, pay increases, job security,
transparency on the disciplinary process with protections and accountability. Unions continue to have a moment.
Joel (11:09.147)
unions, not just, not just for blue collar jobs anymore. Well, my next shout out and last one goes to Paul Whelan and Evan Gershkovich. Who are those people? If you don't know, they've been detained in Russia for a year plus, particularly Paul's been there, I think almost five years. They were put in jail in Russia over trumped up charges of spying and espionage.
Chad Sowash (11:09.685)
and retail.
Chad Sowash (11:23.84)
Huh?
Joel (11:38.095)
in Russia, while there's a, about to go down the largest multi -country prisoner exchange since the cold war, some bad guys are going to be put back into the system in Russia and wherever they're, they're doing their thing. But, shout out to Evan and Paul finally coming home, horrible atrocity on them for being put in jail in the first place. So yeah, a couple, a couple rounds of applause there to end.
The shout outs with coming home and unions with another win with another win. And speaking of winning Chad, we got free shit and that's nothing is winning like some free stuff from Chad and cheese. What do we
Chad Sowash (12:16.479)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (12:21.706)
Yeah, well, the first thing you gotta understand is you can't win unless you play. And the only way you can play is if you register at ChadCheese .com slash free. You can win t -shirts from Evan, Aaron App. That's right, Aaron App, the wonderful people who are bringing you those t -shirts that you love to wear all the time, whether it's going to bed at night or getting up in the morning or to your favorite conference. Beer from Aspen Tech Labs, they send craft beer to your front door, Aspen Tech Labs.
Whiskey from Tex Colonel aka who are they bullhorn? That's right bullhorn bought Tex Colonel. So two bottles of whiskey from Tex Colonel and if it's your birthday, it's rum from our friends at plum Go to Chad cheese comm slash
Chad Sowash (13:13.728)
loams.
Joel (13:14.699)
That's right, Chad. Some loyal listeners are celebrating another trip around the sun. Shout out to Wendy Daly, Kim Bates, Kristy Kelling, Stephanie Pindris, Michael Maladi, Sally Millich, Christopher Cleland, Micah Clark, Joel Stupka, Holly Smith, Mark Coleman, Brendan Krickschank, and Jessica Lee celebrating another trip around the sun. And speaking of t -shirts, Chad, real quick, when I come to Canada,
Chad Sowash (13:33.067)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (13:40.033)
Yes.
Joel (13:41.565)
I'm shipping Canadians some t -shirts cause I can get that discount cause I'm in country. So if you're a listener and you're Canadian, keep an eye on your mailbox because there could be a treat from Chad and she's showing up very, very shortly. Very, very short.
Chad Sowash (13:54.07)
Get ready.
Chad Sowash (13:58.976)
Very, very nice. Hey, next treat is going to be in Nashville. That's going to be Wreckfest in Nashville, September 12th and 13th. We will be at the Shaker Recruitment Green Room, the Wreckfest Green Room where, yeah, yes, we're going to be surrounded by alcohol and snacks. I get that. But, but we're also going to be the place where the speakers come in either before or after and have a little chat with us about their talk. So really excited about that. And
We're going to be hosting a VIP event with great people, higher clicks and job pixel at the end of day one at your favorite place, Joel, the Redneck Riviera. More info as we get closer. If you don't have tickets, go to ChadCheese .com slash events, big register in the header image. Just click it, register and we will see you in Nashville. This will be a fucking awesome
Joel (14:55.979)
That's right, Chad. And while they're registering, they should subscribe to our YouTube channel. Guys, we have a face for podcasting and we have a face for YouTubing, believe it or not. That's right. Come to youtube .com forward slash at Chad cheese. Click the subscribe button. We got some exclusives. We got some treats. got, you know, fake back backing of chairs. If you're not watching, won't, you won't see that subscribe to our.
our YouTube channel and be on the lookout as well, Chad. It's that time of year.
That's right. Fantasy football is right around the corner. And our friends at factory fix are sponsoring their third year, their third season of the show. Dean Aparo is hoping to repeat as the champion. It hasn't been done yet. Should be the first one to ever do that. So, so be on the lookout for that. Fantasy football is right around the corner. Thanks to our friends at factory fix.
Chad Sowash (15:33.312)
Fancy football.
Chad Sowash (15:46.32)
coming for you, Dina. Coming for
Chad Sowash (16:01.105)
Topics!
Joel (16:05.033)
Okay, I think this was over maybe some port and Calamari there in Portugal. Chad's got something new that he threw at us this week. Chad, tell us what we're going to do today.
Chad Sowash (16:06.827)
All right, kids.
Chad Sowash (16:17.972)
Yeah, so we're going to end up on a specific note. We'll get there. You'll know where we're going to be heading. But on our way there, we have a shit ton of tech to talk about this week. I am excited about this, but we've got so much that we've got to get through and we've got to get through it fast. So I thought, why not between Joel and myself, call this news and each piece of it, either a Big Mac, meaning that it's big and or a nothing burger. So Joel's going to go through. He's going to give us kind of like a little synopsis of
I'm going to give my interpretation of it, whether it's a Big Mac or a nothing burger, Joel's going to do the same thing. And then we're going to rinse and repeat as we go through, but we have a lot of news, so let's hit
Joel (17:00.177)
So just to summarize here, if it's good, it's a Big Mac. Or if it's going to if it's if it's going to mean something, it's a Big Mac. If it's like nothing to see
Joel (17:15.755)
Then it's a nothing burger. Okay. I get it. I get it. Let's, let's start with our favorite whipping boy. Indeed. they plan to charge $3 per API call starting in September of this year where they had been charging zero previously. this affects how companies will post jobs on the platform chat. Is this a big Mac or nothing
Chad Sowash (17:42.486)
So this to me is a nothing burger and here's
Chad Sowash (17:50.7)
Jim Durbin over writing for the AIM group wrote quote, paying for an API is not new in comparison on open AI and API call currently cost about 0 .03 cents per call. While Google API calls are closer to 0 .001 cents per call. End quote. The question
Is it more expensive because indeed has old crusty and rusty tech? It costs more to drive an old car. So maintenance and parts are more expensive when you're driving a 1976 Chevette or is indeed just grasping at revenue straws here. Their traffic takes a big hit. Traffic means clicks, clicks mean revenue plus new products like CPSA get shut down while
now pivoting into staffing. So maybe they're just grasping at straws. Both could be true. Nevertheless, customers might whine, but they will pay indeed 1976 Chevette tax, which is why it's a nothing burger for
Joel (19:00.395)
It's also a nothing burger for your boy here as
Joel (19:09.227)
How great is that movie by the way? How, how many good things came out of 1971? I'm telling, I'm telling. All right. So, tell me you're desperate without telling me you're desperate. this is a money grab as far as I'm concerned. indeed is basically saying, if you're not paying us, you're going to pay us. And if you're not paying us very much, you're going to pay us more because if you pay more than you get, like you get this thing dismissed,
where it gets potentially big Mac ish is in the sticker shock that could happen. remember when they launched, what was it cost per interested job seeker or whatever it was. And we had, we had small businesses paying like seven grand and getting sticker shock and passing out by how high the fees were like there. Yeah, there could be, there could be a sticker sock situation where someone goes, holy hell.
Chad Sowash (19:52.438)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (19:56.94)
Versus $300? Yeah.
Joel (20:06.249)
Look at this bill I just got from Indeed. And at that point, the industry gets pissed off and then they have to backtrack and then they have to apologize and whatever. So hopefully they've learned that lesson. This feels a lot more like nickel and diming than it does like whacking people over the head with a base with a, with a Louisville slugger. So for me, like until I see more, this is not a Big Mac. It is a nothing burger. Let's go to zip recruiter as our next contestant. They've introduced.
what they're calling some new tools. That's right. They're touting a more intuitive search function, personalized job recommendations and AI assistance for creating resumes. But wait, Chad, that's not more. Can I interest you in more detailed pay information on jobs, enhanced job previews and new text alert options for job postings? Chad, ZipRecruiter's new tools, BigMac or nothing.
Chad Sowash (21:06.988)
This is a nothing burger easily.
Chad Sowash (21:15.02)
So dude, you didn't even mention the best part. They're doubling down on Phil. my God. Fuck Phil already. Okay. Get Phil out of here. Ziprecruiter had a chance before IPO and everything going to shit. They were delivering somewhat qualified and interested candidates. But if they had moved closer to understanding the actual qualifications and certifications of the people in their database while limiting the number of qualified candidates they provided.
They would be kicking indeed's ass right now. This is literally just slapping a little AI on fucking Phil. That's
Joel (22:00.681)
Alright, I hate to agree with you, Chad, but yes, this is a nothing
Chad Sowash (22:03.756)
Hahaha
Joel (22:09.547)
So most of the things on this list, I would call an AI layup. It's going to be something that we just expect to happen. It's not a enhanced tool that we're giving people. it's time to kill Phil. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the dude is dorky. The dude welcomes everyone that goes to ZipRecruiter. It's just kind of stupid.
Chad Sowash (22:15.937)
Yeah.
Joel (22:39.185)
He's been around for years now and it's not how it's not like changing the course of the company. Phil may have to take a backseat to whatever is going on. To me, I want to talk about SMS alerts. If you think email alerts for jobs is annoying, can I interest you in some text alerts for jobs for new jobs? Yeah, not so much. I know that people will opt into this.
I'm curious as to if it will be the default and people have to uncheck it and it like if they kind of trick people into doing it. I know our friends at Next, formerly Beyond, were really early on the text opting in and got a lot of people to do it really early when it was kind of cool and sort of novel. think that is played for them. I think this is eventually going to be played for ZipRecruiter.
If you're looking for a job, text alerts are fine. Once you've got a job, you don't want alerts every day on a regular basis about jobs. People are going to opt out of this in mass. They're going to like report this to whatever service they're using. They're going to have to deal with like how many opt -outs, people are reporting abuse. It's going to be a pain in the ass if they have a short code or a phone number. Anyway, I think the text alerts thing is an absolute shit show and an absolute awful decision.
Chad Sowash (23:47.36)
Top.
Joel (24:05.375)
This is not going to change the course of zip recruiters and inevitable downfall to close to zero on the stock price, which is where it's going by the way. This is nothing burger Chad. Let's get to our next contestant. Shall we indeed zip recruiter? Well, we got to follow that up with LinkedIn. Don't we? LinkedIn is updating its job listing guidelines for third party sites, sending jobs to the platform. The guidelines emphasize the need for accurate real
Chad Sowash (24:25.473)
Mm.
Joel (24:34.155)
current job postings with specific requirements for data fields, company representation, and job title accuracy. Good luck with that. LinkedIn is getting tough, Chad. They're getting tough, getting tough on those guidelines. Big Mac or nothing burger at LinkedIn.
Chad Sowash (24:54.302)
a Big Mac, believe it or not, this is a Big Mac.
Joel (24:55.367)
Woohoo!
Chad Sowash (24:59.018)
Okay, so many of the guidelines are common and they really just filter out scam sites like the ladders and stop aggregators from resharing jobs, which, you know, only introduces more duplicate postings. But here are the ones that actually stood out and here's where the Big Mac comes in. Item number two, bullet three. The company name must accurately represent the employer as on the source listing of the job and must not hide the employer name, which means you can't use
confidential. This means staffing companies will have to disclose the name of the company they are hiring for because they must quote accurately represent the employer and quote, quote, confidential is not permitted and quote, here's the kicker. Okay. So, well, first off, that's a problem. Staffing companies are going to have an issue with that. There's going to have to be probably some work and massage around that, or they're not going to get staffing company money. And that's a lot of cash.
Then we get to the kicker, is item number 17. Beginning in August 2024, certain third party jobs may no longer be visible on LinkedIn when they are ingested as basic jobs or limited listings for third party sources, such as applicant tracking systems and job boards, end quote, which is counter to number nine.
Okay, which states quote the application process must lead you directly to the source of the job listing and quote, which is on the applicant tracking system. So that's the applicant tracking system. You fucking idiots, staffing companies seem to be fucked, but ATS companies are semi fucked. I mean, unless we find out what's actually happening here. I mean, what the actual fuck LinkedIn is doing, they need to get their shit
Joel (26:34.29)
Mm -hmm.
Chad Sowash (26:53.996)
because they're going to lose a ton of revenue from a staffing standpoint. Maybe they don't care. But on the other side, are ATS allowed? Are they not allowed? Because specifically, point 17 says not allowed, which doesn't make any fucking sense.
Joel (27:11.231)
I love that you had time to read all these points for LinkedIn. was in a hot tub last night drinking Crown Royal, because I'm in Canada. So I'm glad that you did the research that I clearly could not. So I'm going to... You gave this one a big Mac. I'm going to go nothing burger.
Chad Sowash (27:24.15)
Here for you. Here for
Joel (27:32.637)
And here's why. What is LinkedIn's history of solid execution on a good idea?
Joel (27:45.023)
Yeah, here's a hint. Here's a hint. Not very good. No, it's not very good, Chad. So as well meaning as this may be, as logical as it may be, as sound of an idea as it may be, LinkedIn does not have a great track record of good execution. So I just don't see any of this stuff happening. I think it's a great press release. Microsoft had their fingers on this a little bit. So I just, I just, have, I have no faith.
Chad Sowash (27:45.11)
Very short -lived.
Chad Sowash (28:10.005)
I did.
Joel (28:14.667)
No faith that LinkedIn is going to get this right. And speaking of Microsoft having their hands in something, let's get to something totally different. Search GPT, that's right. OpenAI has introduced a prototype search engine called Search GPT. This move positions OpenAI to potentially challenge Google's dominance in search, which is roughly 90 % of the market, by the
The secret weapon you might ask, natural and conversational interactions. It's currently being tested on a select group of users. Chad, Big Mac or nothing burger? Search GPT.
Chad Sowash (28:58.474)
Yeah, another Big Mac, another Big Mac.
Chad Sowash (29:05.938)
Not because open AI search will overtake Google's search anytime soon, but because this will force Google to do more than use cute little AI generated summaries of a search. Google hasn't pushed the boundaries of gen AI in search because it's all about the revenue model. They get paid on clicks and if people aren't clicking because the user receives the answer without clicking on anything, well, no click, no revenue. Now Google,
Definitely saw this coming. So behind the scenes I guarantee you they have created several models that align with their current paper click their current paper click model and also models that move away from paper click no matter once again We're saying open AI force Google's hand. That's a big
Joel (29:55.295)
That is a Big Mac and I too, Chad.
Chad Sowash (29:58.262)
Go!
Joel (30:00.137)
I'm getting hungry in your new game. and I'm going to have to have a snack before we record next time. But yes, this is a big Mac. Look, historically going after Google is basically replicating Google. now that we're talking about Microsoft, most of us remember, or maybe have used Bing accidentally. when you, when you come at Google with the same product, basically it's like, you're going to lose because Google has a better product. However, with
Chad Sowash (30:20.662)
Mm.
Joel (30:29.503)
GPT stuff, conversational AI, getting the answers you want immediately and not having to click to different websites to find the answer, tells me that search is different now. How people consume content now is changing. People are looking for different ways to get answers to questions. I certainly am evident of that myself. I tend to go to an AI to say like, what's the weather or
You know, who founded anything I want, I can get the answer. to click through links. So the big, the big issue to me as well is Apple is clearly sort of getting in bed with, with open AI and their new Apple intelligence is going to be driven by, open AI. And ultimately the search function on Safari currently has Google duck, duck, go Bing and other search engines, which they're all the same as Google,
If you can choose search GPT and have my, have that be my default search engine, then all of a sudden a billion iPhone users that are searching on Safari are now seeing chat or search GPT answers as opposed to Google answers. That is a real interesting dilemma for Google to figure out. It could be a death by a thousand cuts. Remember just a 10 % decrease in Google search dominance. That's billions of dollars. So is Google done? Absolutely not.
Chad Sowash (31:50.768)
damn.
Joel (31:54.379)
Could they go from 90 to 75 %? Yes, they can. And if that happens, that is definitely a double big, double Big Mac based on Chad and I's analysis.
Joel (32:09.045)
Let's take a quick break and we'll play a little more Big Mac or Nothing Burger.
Joel (32:19.093)
let's go back to LinkedIn with a little dash of Pinterest and TikTok, shall we? Social media platforms such as Pinterest, TikTok and LinkedIn are trying a new tack to gain bigger share of digital advertising, getting news outlets and other publishers to help them sell. Pinterest, for instance, is testing a new program through which publishers would be able to sell ads.
Chad Sowash (32:19.978)
Round
Joel (32:43.953)
on their Pinterest pages using an ad auction system. Chad, is this a Big Mac or a Nothing
Chad Sowash (32:54.198)
I think for Pinterest, it's a Big Mac and for LinkedIn, it's a nothing burger. There's two entirely different, they're separate models. Separate models, separate models.
Joel (33:09.737)
Way to confuse the listeners, Chad. Both of
Chad Sowash (33:09.944)
Pinterest is very easy, owned by Metta. Very, very easy though. Pinterest owned by Metta. Metta knows how to monetize and they know how to get results. LinkedIn, face it kids, LinkedIn's ads they don't perform. So companies that sell into LinkedIn, well, it's going to be short -lived as those ads won't perform and they won't come back. The marketing world is going to see this as an advertising spend wasteland.
until LinkedIn builds a more robust infrastructure and they can do basics like, I don't know, use my data that they have to get me, I don't know, matched to relevant fucking jobs. I don't think they can actually scan my content and posts to better understand and target me with traditional advertising. So for LinkedIn, definitely a nothing burger.
Joel (34:01.451)
So I'm gonna go nothing burger on this one
I took you back in time with the Howard Dean campaign and I'm going to take you back in time to a company called Adster. Adster, yes, in the days when blogs were cool. Adster was a service where you would put code on your site and then people could put banner ads on your blog and you would have a system where it go to Adster to buy and then they would process the payment and give you the cut.
I don't think it was an auction based service, but similar idea. Well, Google's AdSense came out and bloggers realized, well, I could just put Google's code on there instead of Adster and just get paid on clicks. And Google's really good at paying me on time and, and Adster eventually faded away. this idea of like banner ads on
areas and auctioning and expecting that people know what the hell the ad is going to look like. Is it text -based, which works, but nobody likes text anymore. expecting people to create banner ads is like weird now. Chad's making me make a banner ad here soon, for HR grapevine. And I'm, I'm, I'm in the fetal position cause I don't remember like what banner ad should look like and what the sizes and everything like leaderboard and my God. so.
ads today are like video and you got to have like hip TikTok videos. It don't look like commercials. so like advertising is really challenging to have to think that people are just going to get away from, from the two, the duopoly of Google and Metta and auction off for ads and like think about which gets most traffic. What's the audience for this thing? Like it's too complicated. It's too much. People like simple.
Joel (35:56.061)
And for that reason, this is getting a big nothing burger from
Joel (36:04.265)
All right, let's go to Oracle. my God, have we talked about Oracle on the show in a while? Oracle HCM now allows candidates to apply directly to openings from job seeker profiles on major job boards such as LinkedIn and indeed Chad, Nothing Burger or Big
Chad Sowash (36:26.546)
Nothing Burger.
Chad Sowash (36:34.22)
So making the application process easier isn't always a good thing, especially when you have bots applying to thousands of jobs instantaneously or you allow just a shit ton of unqualified candidates just to flood the system. Oracle should have prioritized job sites creating a standard user verification process before making this move. This is like putting 100 ,000 carts before a one slow moving Oracle horse.
Oracle's press release talks about candidate experience, but what about recruiter experience? There needs to be a balance. And this feels like Oracle's already famous recruiter hellscape experience is going to get worse.
Joel (37:21.579)
I was going down that road, Chad, but I switched it up again, maybe because I'm getting hungry, but I flipped it to Big Mac. mean, we've been talking for decades about how ATS is need to get on the easy apply train because it takes 45 minutes to apply to jobs, depending on the ass, et cetera. Now, to your point of, automation now makes it really challenging to like put the gate up and make it more restrictive for people to apply and something like easy apply.
makes automated applies that much easier. And now Mr. Mrs. employer, you get to deal with the tsunami of resumes and applicants that come through your door. But I couldn't help but say how hypocritical it would be for me to say like the apply process sucks on ATSs, but then give this a nothing burger because of the automation piece. Companies are going to have to get better at pre -screening. ATSs are going to have to get better
I don't know, captures or how do I, how do I like something's a bot, something isn't, and it may be as old school as like going back to captures or something, but like we can get better at policing the bots and the human beings, but I'm still, I've still got to be for making it easier to apply. And I also think that a big name like Oracle, if this fucking Titanic of a company is making this change, it's going to force smaller companies.
to make a similar change, or at least make it easier to pitch the idea to the higher ups that we should do it because Oracle can do it. So a little bit of disagreement, but I'm going to go.
Big Mac on this one. Well, from Oracle to New Zealand, for God's sakes, finally after seven plus years of recording, we can finally talk about the economic juggernaut that is New Zealand and seeks market share in the Kiwi country. Well, job advertisements on seek New Zealand experienced a significant year on year decline
Joel (39:28.331)
35 % in June. Monthly figures also indicated a general decline in job ads across all regions and industries. Chad, is the New Zealand news a Big Mac or a nothing
Chad Sowash (39:42.71)
So this is a Big Mac, and I'll tell you
Chad Sowash (39:48.204)
Got to think of this and on the macro sense and especially for many job sites that are outside of the US. So job advertisements on in this case and we're going to use this as kind of like a microcosm of the whole. So job advertisements on the job board there in seek or down 35 percent which means their revenue was down but their traffic ticked up slightly. The duration based job posting revenue model is fucking seek.
at this point and all other companies still using that 1995 duration based model. All regions in New Zealand, year over year average decline in job ads comparing June of 2023 to 2024 Marlboro region saw 50 % decline in job ads, Wellington 46 % decline and Southland saw the smallest decline 18%. Now, if the traffic stayed the same and it actually ticked up a
those job seekers would still be clicking on jobs. And if Seek had a performance driven model in place, they wouldn't have seen the type of revenue hit that you know they saw. 35%, that much drop when you're paying duration based, you know it's hitting your bottom line. So it's big because again, it's exposing old revenue models that need to be put
to pasture. This is big for the entire industry and even though it's a little bitty New Zealand and a microcosm for the macro, this means a lot for the entire jobsite ecosystem.
Joel (41:28.203)
So in my notes on this one, I didn't put what I was going to grade it because I wanted to hear what you had to say. And frankly, I'm not an expert in New Zealand economics. So I did a little research on New Zealand. They have fewer than six million people living in New Zealand. So it's basically smaller than Chicago. I'm going to guess Seek is the number one site because they're the number one site in Australia.
New Zealand is more or less an Australian Island from what I can tell. They're not a very diversified economy, which gives me pause to say that this is a canary in the coal mine, which is what I'm hearing from you, that this is evidence of what could be on a global scale of a duration based ads getting hit. My pause is simply that New Zealand does not have a very diverse economy. It's basically.
They're big in dairy farms. I didn't know this. I had to look it up. Dairy farms, their biggest companies are a mobile payments company. And their airport is literally one of their biggest companies in like the Auckland airport. we're not, to me, if we were looking at a microcosm of potentially the world in terms of industries, maybe the canary in the coal mine works for me. I think the jury is still
in terms of is this a bigger picture, bigger play? New Zealand for me just doesn't get me excited. It does not quite go deep enough, Chad. So for me, I'm not going to fall for the banana in the tailpipe. This one for me is a nothing
Chad Sowash (43:13.612)
250 billion in GDP. Indiana has double that in GDP, the way. Indiana.
Joel (43:22.795)
I'm in Canada with like 35 million people in a country as big as America. So what, what the hell do I know? But I do know beer. So let's talk about beer when we come back from the
Chad Sowash (43:27.05)
Ha ha
Joel (43:37.899)
Keep your hands off my Heine, baby. That's a horrible Austin Powers impression. But anyway, let's talk about beer, Chad. Heineken is blaming a rainy Euro football tournament and a slowing Chinese market for its recent decline in sales, which since shares down 7%. Chad, you're a big fan of the football. I know you watch the Euros. What are your thoughts on a sagging Heine?
Chad Sowash (44:05.258)
Yeah, to me that's it's it's shitty beer. mean, we have so many options now. And this is the biggest problem. This is what we're seeing with some of the standards like, you know, Bush and Budweiser and all the ones that were around there just shitty beers compared to the selection that we have now even here I went to a beer festival two weekends ago, craft beer festival here in Portugal and it was only Portuguese craft beer. was great beer. If that would have been five years ago.
it would have been shitty beer and there would probably only been two and there were like, you know, 15 different different microbreweries that were there. So this is what's killing the Heineken's in the world. And the only time I ever have a Heineken is when I'm forced to like tonight after I play an hour and a half of paddle, I go to the clubhouse and the only thing that they have on tap is Heineken. So I will have
Joel (45:02.507)
So a couple of those beers, Chad, that you mentioned in the Heineken portfolio include Dosekis, Murphy's, Newcastle and Tiger. If you're ever in Asia, Tiger is very popular, with, the kids and at the restaurant. So I'm always, I'm always cautious when a, when a public company blames sort of a, a niche event or something weird is the reason as to why, profits have fallen.
Chad Sowash (45:16.97)
Have it here, now.
Joel (45:32.951)
I remember Snapchat, back in February, literally blaming the middle East conflict for their poor advertising numbers. Like they need to, they need to grab on these sort of micro trends or micro events as opposed to saying, you know what, on a macro level, our business is challenged and here's why they want to have like these little, they want these look, don't look over there. Look over here. It's the soccer it's China.
Chad Sowash (45:42.294)
Mm -hmm.
Joel (45:59.851)
It's the Middle East. You know, that's what's having an impact on business. The fact is, Chad, fewer young people in particular are choosing to drink alcohol. Around a third of people, 18 to 24 apparently, don't drink alcohol at all, which may have something to do with the decline in sex with young people. Maybe it's just me. Maybe it's just me. But alcohol does tend to lead to, you know, lubricated activities, if you will. So to me,
I'm worried for beer in general. think fewer kids, fewer young people are drinking. They're on the THC. They're doing the weed. They're doing like the gummies and they're doing things that let's be honest are probably a little healthier for them. You don't feel like shit in the morning. The trend is against beer and old guys like us still love it and we're still buying it in bulk. Now we have a little bit of money so we don't have to buy Heineken and Dos Equis. We can get the good local
which is what we're doing, which means bad news for the Heineken's in the world. If you don't have young people that don't have money not buying your crappy shit and older people with money are buying better stuff, you're sort of stuck in the middle with nowhere to go. So this isn't football, this isn't China, this is a macro decline, I think, in the amount of booze being consumed.
Humanity is doomed. I don't know. Would you give this a Big Mac or a nothing burger in terms of news?
Chad Sowash (47:31.178)
No, it's definitely a Big Mac and we were seeing a change. And that being said, the end story, is, which is, there it is, the end story, which actually brings the two buns together.
Joel (47:33.437)
Okay.
Joel (47:37.567)
Yes, thank you for that segue.
That's right. but it's not good news for McDonald's. McDonald's reported a 1 % decline in sales, making its first sales decline in 13 quarters. The company attributed the slump to consumers opting for cheaper food options. What the hell are cheaper food options? They didn't really go into that in the story. Chad, put down your caviar.
and your fancy IPA and let us know what you think of a slumping
Chad Sowash (48:14.602)
Yeah. So, mean, wait a minute. Wasn't McDonald's the place that you could go eat cheaper than eating at home? I mean, if you check out macrotrends .net, will see that McDonald's profits, their profit margins are at an all -time high. So they're basically saying, we got so goddamn greedy by raising prices and pumping up our margins that we priced out our core audience. Plus,
Plus, I think this is big too. This from CNBC, quote, a higher popular group of weight loss and diabetes drugs is decreasing some consumers' appetites and also how much they spent on food. 61 % spent less on takeout. 63 % spent less at dining at restaurants, which are the same damn businesses. So drugs like Wagovi, Ozembic,
Zetbound and Manjaro are helping America's curb their weight and spend less, which is good for everyone except rich executives with multi -million dollar comp packages that work at, you know, fast food joints.
Joel (49:29.611)
Well, we'll never fear Chad because the $5 meal deal is back and it is sexy. That's right. For five bucks, you can get that burger nugget fries. Like they got the whole, it's pretty nice. think that I'm not, I'm not too scared about McDonald's. you raise a really good point, with the, weight loss drugs. And if, if at some point, which I think everyone, thinks that insurance will pay for these drugs.
Chad Sowash (49:35.51)
Jesus.
Joel (49:56.073)
just from a diabetes, whatever, like that will, that will happen to where insurance pays for this stuff. And when that happens, holy hell, sell, sell your, sell your fast food stocks kids, because if the average Joe can get weight loss drugs like the rich folk do now, it's going to impact fast food in a big way. So, in the, in the short
Chad Sowash (50:02.464)
Mm -hmm.
Chad Sowash (50:17.836)
Yes.
Joel (50:19.647)
The five mil deal is all good. I don't, think we have to worry about McDonald's going under. I'm definitely not a buyer of the stock, not that we give stock tips on the show, but, going back to beer, Chad, quick note to the PSA to the kids don't drink and drive. Okay. That's not smart. That's not smart, which brings us to our dad joke of the week. Chad, are you ready?
Chad Sowash (50:37.654)
Yes, yes.
Chad Sowash (50:42.656)
Yeah. You just need to slip in the dad jokes. Now I gotta, no, I'm not ready, but go ahead. Okay, go ahead. Okay.
Joel (50:46.463)
I know you're excited. know you're excited. I know you're excited. right. All right, Chad. What do you call it when a dinosaur crashes his car? What do you call it when a dinosaur crashes his
Chad Sowash (50:57.177)
I don't know. I don't know. But they might need rhinoplasty after the accident. I don't know.
Joel (51:04.863)
Tyrannosaurus Rex. Get it? Rex. Tyrannosaurus Rex.
Chad Sowash (51:12.48)
That was great. That was awesome. We out.
Joel (51:12.937)
Nothing Burger or Big Mac. We out.
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