Indeed Drops, Big Tech Flops and the AI War Machine Pops
- Chad Sowash
- 4 minutes ago
- 32 min read
💼 Indeed vs. ZipRecruiter: The HR tech legal slap fight ends with a conspiracy theory?
🧠Big Tech's antitrust tour: Meta and Google are getting legally undressed by regulators.
🦾 AI replacing humans: A startup literally called Mechanize wants to automate everything. But don't worry, the CEO swears it’ll "enrich humanity." Just like trickle-down economics did.
💣 It's either China or SkyNey as Palmer Luckey is back—this time pushing AI weapons.
Tune in before the machines take your job and your podcast mic
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Joel (00:34.132)
Yeah, just counting the days til the Christie Nome OnlyFans account launches. Hi, boys and girls. It's the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel Draft Day Cheesman.
Chad (00:44.861)
This is Chad, antitrust, Sowash.
J.T. O'Donnell (00:47.66)
And I'm JT. It's finally summer here in New England O'Donnell.
Joel (00:52.404)
On this episode Indeed drops big tech flops and the AI war machine pops. Let's do this.
Chad (01:03.429)
Love the weather getting nice before I get out of here. That's, that's beautiful. That's just beautiful.
Joel (01:08.02)
Does it feel like Portugal or does Portugal have its own sort of feel? Got the ocean breeze there, yeah, the laid back atmosphere.
Chad (01:13.671)
Yeah. Yeah. Portugal. Yeah. Yeah. It's just an entirely different, it's an entirely different experience, but it is nice. It's going to be 80 degrees here. So that's nice. That's one.
Joel (01:22.163)
I get it.
Joel (01:26.964)
It is, it is nice. And I, uh, I'm, participating in my annual half marathon, uh, down in Louisville this weekend and, it's supposed to rain all weekend. enjoy this while it, while it lasts, my 85 year old dad, 85 year old dad is doing a, uh, a 5k on Friday. we'll see, pray for, pray for my father to make it out alive in a 5k.
Chad (01:33.411)
Chad (01:39.835)
You might be running with robots.
J.T. O'Donnell (01:46.83)
Meanwhile, good for him. Meanwhile, we're breaking 60 here in New England, breaking 60 in New England and sunny. And that means everybody's like shorts, shirts off and walking around with the dunks. You know what mean? It's like, it's a good life. You got it. Yeah.
Chad (01:49.607)
Thank you. think you're dead. Yeah
Chad (01:59.165)
Ha ha ha!
Joel (02:00.692)
Is that Dunkin' Donuts for our non-Northeast listeners? Yeah, I'm sure the Birkenstocks come out. The whale shirts, shirts with the whale in it come out.
Chad (02:03.645)
The...the dunks.
J.T. O'Donnell (02:08.812)
It's a vibe.
Chad (02:09.981)
It's a real vibe.
J.T. O'Donnell (02:12.046)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (02:14.907)
Yeah. dude, drafts today too though. Thursday. Thursday.
Joel (02:17.78)
drafts today and the Browns have a, an epic history of picking really good in the top two or three players. so they have the number two pick today. I'm, I'm going to go with Travis Hunter. I'm fine with, mean, he's probably the best receiver and the best corner in the, in the draft. So that's kind of a unicorn pick. I'm fine with that.
Chad (02:22.274)
Jesus. Fucking it up.
J.T. O'Donnell (02:24.622)
you
Chad (02:28.241)
fucking it up.
Chad (02:37.041)
Yeah. Yep. he's amazing. He's amazing.
Joel (02:42.952)
But I'm not sure a Flacco, Kenny Pickett, Deshaun Watson, quarterback trio is what they want to go in with for the full season this year. think they probably pull a quarterback somewhere out of the draft.
Chad (02:54.363)
Yeah. To think that the Browns could also ruin Travis Hunter, it just makes me sad. It makes me sad. He needs, I mean, he'll play great secondary wise, but he needs somebody to be able to feed him the ball. Deshaun Watson's a mess. I mean, and everybody, it's just, it's a potpourri of quarterbacks at the Browns right now. It's fucking horrible.
Joel (03:05.534)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (03:15.026)
Yeah. Yeah, it's, the land of misfit toys at the quarterback room for sure. For sure.
J.T. O'Donnell (03:16.92)
There's a word, potpourri. Whose grandma house were you at Chad?
Chad (03:19.261)
you
I was being nice. I'm trying to get into Euro Chad mode.
Joel (03:31.636)
I'm kind of, I'm kind of hoping like for a dark horse, will Howard, pick up at the QB spot. think will Howard is a, he's, will Howard I think is a, is a, he's an uncut gym. I think he could be a solid, at least backup in the league. We'll
Chad (03:37.007)
god again, you're trying to ruin a good-
Chad (03:48.781)
He could be, he could be a Josh Allen. He's got the same stats that Josh Allen does. I mean, I mean, just from a physical standpoint, I mean, he's played all the way through, and obviously won a national championship, which Allen didn't do. but I mean, yeah, don't do it Browns, please, please don't do it.
Joel (04:07.828)
I think you're a little out of control with the, uh, with that comparison, but we'll see. We'll see Tom Brady, right? Go back to the Northeast for JT Tom Brady, greatest ever arguably. Uh, you know.
Chad (04:11.409)
Comparisons, mean, you know, it's early. It's early, yeah?
J.T. O'Donnell (04:16.054)
Well, the only way can contribute to this conversation is I'm married to a Raiders fan. He's been a Raiders fan for 40 plus years and it's just so sad every year I just watch him.
Chad (04:28.241)
Yeah, yeah.
Joel (04:28.788)
My oldest is a Raiders fan. think just because the jerseys are cool. Just the black and the silver is cool. Yeah, and Vegas is cool.
J.T. O'Donnell (04:34.51)
And they're in Vegas now.
Chad (04:36.145)
Yeah, but when we were growing up, Howie Long, man, watching Howie Long just destroy motherfuckers, that was, I mean, you know, that was back in the day when, yeah. Yeah, Marcus Allen.
J.T. O'Donnell (04:39.072)
Yeah.
Joel (04:43.508)
Kenny. yeah. Jim Plunkett, Alan, who was the corner with all the goo on his hands. Remember that guy? well stick stick it. No, no, no. Stick them used to be a thing. Remember guys would put stick them like all over their arms and like the ball would just glue to their hands and the Hendrix. No, Jim Hendrix was a linebacker. Anyway, the Raiders had a guy in the eighties who had like stick them all over like his uniform and shoes and
Chad (04:52.285)
That sounds like a porn. Yeah, I do it. Yeah, was. Yeah. yeah.
J.T. O'Donnell (04:58.338)
Yeah. Amen.
Joel (05:13.396)
It got, it got disgusting, disgusting. But yeah, come on Browns. Come on Browns. Do the, do the right thing. Do the right thing.
Chad (05:15.312)
Nasty.
Chad (05:19.697)
Yeah. Do the right thing. Don't, don't, don't draft Will Howard. Yes. Yes. Shout outs.
Joel (05:24.02)
This time a shout out sponsored by our friends up North. Kiora text recruiting made simple and affordable. Chad, what you got this week?
Chad (05:29.447)
Kiaora!
Love it. Well, my shout out is to Shungun, you know him as Roy, Roy Lee, who got kicked out of Columbia for building interview coder AI, which was built to cheat on coding interviews. He raised 5.3 million to build something new. Go ahead, let's roll that beautiful bean footage. You can check it out.
J.T. O'Donnell (05:48.76)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Joel (05:57.565)
Let's go.
Chad (06:00.839)
Okay, for all those kids not watching on YouTube, guys are out of date.
Chad (06:09.787)
And he's obviously lying. He's not 30.
Chad (06:36.209)
So I could see you doing this, Cheeseman. You've got the glasses for it.
Chad (06:56.573)
Alerts are going off.
Joel (07:13.236)
Every guy needs this, by the way.
Chad (07:14.215)
Here he goes. Here he goes. He got it.
Chad (07:21.413)
as calendar pops up.
Chad (07:30.685)
Okay, so this guy creates a tech called Cluely, which looks like it's going to pretty much attach to those meta ray bands that Joel owns. Has a heads up display so that you can see it, your date or the person across the table, maybe a company interviewing you, they can't see the answers that are popping up in your glasses. And this guy, again, just got thrown out of Columbia.
Joel (07:40.852)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (07:58.919)
for building an interview coder that was helping coders cheat. 5.3 million, yeah.
Joel (08:03.262)
just got five and a half million dollars, right? To do this thing. Yeah. Do you remember the scene in Terminator where the guy, Arnold's in the hotel room and the guy knocks on the door of the super and he's like, Hey buddy, what are you doing there? And it's like possible responses. And the last one was like, fuck you asshole. he goes, fuck you asshole. That's what that reminded me of.
J.T. O'Donnell (08:06.734)
You
Chad (08:19.291)
Yeah.
Chad (08:22.919)
That's exactly it. That's exactly it. But Roy did say every time technology has made people smarter, the world panics, then it adapts, then it forgets, and suddenly it's normal. The question is, I know guys will think this is normal because we love to cheat, especially on dates, but JT, is this something that, I mean, if you know a guy's wearing glasses, maybe he's got those Ray-Bans on, would you say, okay,
J.T. O'Donnell (08:24.322)
Yeah, there is a simple fit.
Chad (08:50.043)
What's happening behind those shades?
Joel (08:52.83)
post foster grants.
J.T. O'Donnell (08:53.0)
I mean, literally the first thing I thought of when I watched it is like every girl is just gonna say, your glasses off to talk to me. they say take your glasses off to talk to me, right? I mean, I'm sorry. You're gonna need to make those in contacts.
Chad (08:59.709)
There you go. There you go. Easy win.
Joel (09:04.392)
Which, which let's be honest with, with some of the girls I've dated taking off your glasses might be a good thing for some, for some of the guys out there for them as well. Yes. Yes. Bad eyesight has always been an advantage for me. Advantage for me. All right. JT, what you got?
Chad (09:10.701)
for them as well. Yes, carry on.
Chad (09:20.509)
J.T. O'Donnell (09:24.366)
So my shout out is to the 1,504 people that joined me live last week. We officially launched Pro Voice Talent Agency, which I'm super excited about. Thank you for letting me share it. It's the first white collar talent agency that is repping professionals and helping them land brand and partnership deals. And I will also just say my book came out on Amazon, which I'm so excited about. Yeah, Pro Voice is now live. This is 20 years of my life. The story around how I...
Chad (09:44.603)
Yeah, pro voice baby. That's awesome.
J.T. O'Donnell (09:52.526)
got my own pro voice and how I've coached people to get their own pro voices and earn a knowledge paycheck, which is very simply stop being held hostage and trading time for money with a single paycheck. Let us show you how to build multiple income streams so that you've got income diversity and security with a knowledge paycheck. And so that's the is about. Thank you to all those people. The response has been amazing. We have signed a bunch of people already, which is just exceeding all goals and expectations. And I'm just a happy person this week doing what I love and helping people.
Chad (10:20.049)
Wait!
J.T. O'Donnell (10:21.4)
you know, build their dream. Yeah, yeah. The agency's launched. Deal, partner deals. It's a good life. Yeah.
Chad (10:22.737)
great weather, a book's out, you got all this coming together. I love it. I love it.
Joel (10:28.776)
So help walk me through this real quick. I come to you and I say, I need you to be my agent. What happens?
J.T. O'Donnell (10:34.158)
So you come to us and first we, you essentially audition by coming into the program and learning how to be a pro voice, right? So you go through the training, you pass, if we see and like what you're doing, we sign you. When we sign you, we put you in a platform that allows you to not only gain followers for free, but monetize those followers. And then through the monetization of those followers, we're able to identify what you could be charging for. What can you be creating in this world that people would pay good money for? So there's a whole journey that we take you through.
Chad (10:39.879)
There's an audition. Ooh.
Chad (10:53.644)
that's
J.T. O'Donnell (11:03.256)
But additionally, we've signed deals with various companies who are looking for white collar talent to do video and to talk about whether it's product services, jobs, for example, shout out to Flockety, amazing partnership with Tracy, so that people can monetize in that way. And it's incredible. I've done it all. One of the big things is I literally showed people in this training that I've done this in under two hours a month. Let me show you how I made money here. I made money here. I made money here using my ProVoice.
so that you don't feel held hostage. If you want to keep a day job, keep it, because it's going to give you a lot of great ideas for content. But if you also, over time, want to transition out of it and be paid for what you know, then this is the way to do it. And it's been happening for a long time, but I will say AI has created this incredible moment. The technology that's come available in the last six to eight months is really what pushed my ability to be able to launch this agency confidently, because I won't do anything where I can't make people money. It's got to be there. And the tech really came full circle, something that
Chad (11:54.557)
Nice. Yeah.
J.T. O'Donnell (11:58.85)
would have cost you $2,000 a month to just get started with, probably not seeing any return, is now zero cost. So think about that. We've got the runway to get you up and running and monetizing. And that was the big shift. so very, very exciting times. Both of you would be great pro voices, by the way. Yeah, right? Cha-ching.
Joel (12:12.468)
You had me at monetizing.
And where would I go to find out more?
J.T. O'Donnell (12:19.616)
Yeah, if you just go to the company work at daily.com and you will see Pro Voice Talent Agency in the menu bar, or quite frankly, it's already ranking on Google. So if you put in Pro Voice Talent Agency, you'll find it there too.
Joel (12:22.388)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (12:30.036)
you with the SEO. All right, I'll give you guys one guess at my shout out.
Chad (12:30.973)
Very nice.
J.T. O'Donnell (12:31.512)
Yeah.
Chad (12:34.193)
Food.
J.T. O'Donnell (12:34.584)
Food.
Chad (12:36.797)
Cheers.
Joel (12:39.796)
Shout out to Chipotle this week. They are opening their first location in Mexico. No location has been announced yet, but I didn't know this. Chipotle has 58 restaurants in Canada, 20 in the UK. I didn't know if they had it in the UK. And they have six in France and two in Germany. But to go to Mexico, which is so close, is interesting. Now, word of warning to Chipotle. Taco Bell did this and they failed in Mexico, in China, by the way.
Chad (12:57.604)
wow.
Chad (13:03.655)
Yeah.
Joel (13:09.256)
Panda Express failed in China. So apparently something about Americanized Mexican food failing in Mexico. So can Chipotle knock the trend? Can they buck the trend? I guess we'll see. think it's a black market effort to get avocados under the tariffs. I think there's going to be an underground railroad for Chipotle from Mexico to the, yeah, funnel, they're funneling guacamole avocados from Mexico.
Chad (13:11.73)
Yeah.
Chad (13:28.861)
a kind of fun funnel. Yes.
Joel (13:36.03)
to avoid the terrorists. That's my thought. But shout out to Chipotle. And you know what goes great with a burrito, Chad? yeah.
Chad (13:45.063)
free t-shirt. You have a nice free Chad and Cheese t-shirt or I don't know maybe some chicken cock. I love that. But first you got to go to chadcheese.com slash free. You can get that t-shirt. You can get that t-shirt. Sponsored by Aaron App, our friends over at Aaron App. Bourbon barrel aged syrup from the boys up north at Keyura.
J.T. O'Donnell (13:49.208)
you
you
Joel (13:52.944)
yeah.
Chad (14:10.769)
Craft beer from the Data Geeks over at Aspen Tech Labs. Whiskey, chicken cock baby, two bottles. Whiskey from Van Hack. Again, another, another, that's right, Canadian. And then our last Canadian. Jesus Christ, we got Canadians everywhere. If it's your birthday, you're gonna want some rum from Plum, but you can't win if you don't actually register. So go chadcheese.com slash free.
Joel (14:29.778)
Gotta love it. Gotta love it.
Chad (14:40.893)
play and win.
Joel (14:42.004)
That's right, Chad. Another trip around the sun for listeners Duarte Mendonca, Danielle Kozinski, Matt Lozare, Gia Johnston, Chris Brevik, Michael Simon Cowell, Tony Hoban, Joe Samuelson, Scott Lazerman, Yoni Zapiro, Steve Gilbert, Charlotte Marshall, and Lars Schmidt. Happy birthday, everybody. Happy birthday.
J.T. O'Donnell (15:03.118)
Happy birthday!
Chad (15:06.801)
Very nice. Then go figure. It's time for events. Events, where's my McGrathic events? Yeah, come on. I feel naked without Steven McGrath talking about events.
Joel (15:13.626)
Events.
Chad (15:23.741)
Oh, Steven. Yeah. So thanks to shaker marketing, uh, we're going to be going to unleash in may, may six through the eighth coming up really quick. That's right. We're going to be doing this in Vegas on Wednesday, the seventh. We're going to be, uh, during the morning, we're going to be in the suite and the Cosmo filming the new sessions season with our team, uh, the team over at smart recruiters. Uh, that night we're going to have a film VIP wrap.
Joel (15:32.19)
Vegas, baby.
Chad (15:51.591)
party, we'll have more details to come. But this, this again, this, isn't your regular party. We're filming during the day. That's right. Big film wrap at night. then we're going to be hosting two talks in the gem booth, one on Wednesday, the seventh at 3 30 PM Vegas time. And then Thursday morning at 10 30. So don't drink too much chicken cock cheeseman. if you're coming to unleash, look us up.
Joel (16:16.869)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, good luck with that.
Chad (16:19.749)
Again, gonna be at the Cosmo in a suite. We're gonna be at Jem in the booth. We'll be around, look for us. And who knows, Joel might be drinking some chicken cocks.
Joel (16:29.909)
Don't tease him, Chad. Don't tease him now.
Chad (16:33.036)
It's all about the tease.
Joel (16:41.958)
All right. How about some Indeed and ZipRecruiter news? Indeed's lawsuit against ZipRecruiter filed in October was dismissed without prejudice. On April 8th, the suit claimed ZipRecruiter made false and misleading statements about Indeed to steal its customers. ZipRecruiter denied the allegations and vowed to contest them. Things ended with no monetary payments or restrictions on Zip's operation. And court documents suggest both companies discussed
Chad (16:44.093)
Hmm.
J.T. O'Donnell (16:45.23)
Bye!
Joel (17:10.95)
an amicable resolution to avoid further litigation. Chad, your thoughts on all this kumbaya between Indeed and ZipRecruiter.
Chad (17:20.221)
Yeah, I mean, to be fair, when Indeed does clear, they're not clearly messaging to the market and they hardly ever do. But when Indeed does either, you know, poorly articulate or they have a half-baked product like CPSA or CPA, it's really hard for the market to understand what the fuck's going on, let alone competitors. So in this case, what it sounded like is the sales staff was pretty much putting out what they heard.
Joel (17:43.22)
you.
Chad (17:49.711)
A version of what they heard. And again, when you have a company like Indeed, who's really not articulating well, they're putting half baked products out on the markets, you know, things could, you know, things could get kind of, kind of shook up. But to me, this messaging from Zippercruter is purely diversionary as they, their own products. They have poor messaging themselves and they have shitty products. Phil. so to
To me, this feels like two over-promising and under-delivering competitors trying to divert attention from lackluster product and revenues. It's all a bunch of drama for your mama. Let's get back to business.
Joel (18:37.332)
JT.
J.T. O'Donnell (18:38.35)
I think it's financial. It's bad out there right now for them. So do you really want to be wasting money on lawyers? That's pricey. 500 bucks, 1000 bucks an hour. So, you know, I don't think either side really wants to burn their cash when they've got much bigger problems ahead of them, which is, you know, people are dumb with job boards, especially job boards with a lot of bogus jobs. The experience is defined. And if you've been in the market for a long time, the vast majority of job seekers have made up their mind about you. If someone works with job seekers every day.
Chad (18:55.773)
you do.
J.T. O'Donnell (19:07.938)
They don't like what's out there. And so, you you've got to figure out how to be new in the space. I would be spending my time and money on looking for hot properties to purchase, you know, the way Metabot and stuff, for example, like this is where you're going to have to redefine yourself. Cause I just think a lot of these brands aren't going to be able to come back. It's too far to find.
Joel (19:27.86)
So you're saying it's a profit deal, huh? You're saying it's a profit deal. All right, guys, I want to make this real simple. Let me put on my aluminum hat here while I get conspiratorial on you guys. Recruit Holdings buys Indeed. They buy Glassdoor. Zip Recruiter would be the final leg of the stool.
J.T. O'Donnell (19:30.22)
Mm-hmm.
J.T. O'Donnell (19:37.877)
no. no.
Chad (19:55.613)
You've got Simply Hired.
Joel (19:55.796)
While this case, while this case was being brought up and being, being, you know, the lawyers go back and forth, somebody recruit holding said, Hey guys, listen, we're buying zip recruiter soon. So let's just sweep this little lawsuit thing under the, under the rug. And then we'll be announcing our acquisition of zip recruiter, you know, in the next year at some point, uh, by the way, zip recruiter stock down 23 % year to date, a market cap of about $580 million.
That is couch cushion money for recruit holdings. So, the government's too busy with antitrust with the big tech time for recruit holders to come in, snag up zip recruiter and add it to the stool. That is indeed glass door and soon to be zip recruiter. You heard it here first.
Chad (20:41.233)
ZipRecruiter's already dying. ZipRecruiter's already dying. mean, what's the use of even buying them? It's like buying Monster Career Builder, which you've also predicted. They're not even a competitor really anymore. They're taking themselves off the board. That's the point. And again, as JT had said, they got their own problems. They got revenue problems. And it's not because of ZipRecruiter.
J.T. O'Donnell (20:47.916)
Yeah, exactly what I think.
Joel (20:50.994)
You, you take a competitor off the board, baby. Take a chess piece off the board, just like they did with glass door and they'll put indeed content on there.
Mm-hmm.
J.T. O'Donnell (21:06.818)
Mm-hmm.
J.T. O'Donnell (21:10.614)
Mm-hmm. That's not the property I meant.
Joel (21:12.69)
And what's the best time to, what's the best time to buy when there's money problems, when they're, when, when zip is desperate, needs a sugar daddy, who they calling recruit holdings, baby. That's why this, that's why this case is, is swept under the rug. Everybody, everybody. let's, let's keep this thing, litigious. Shall we, meta
Chad (21:15.835)
What's the best time not to buy is when you're having money problems.
Chad (21:24.199)
They're probably calling everybody. They're probably calling everybody. Yes.
J.T. O'Donnell (21:29.24)
Joel (21:37.256)
Google, Microsoft, Amazon, all the big tech is in the news, not for all the good reasons. Metaphase is an FTC lawsuit alleging illegal monopolization via Instagram and WhatsApp acquisitions with a trial underway and potential divestitures. That's a tongue twister looming. lost two antitrust cases, one for search monopoly, another for ad tech facing remedies like breakups or bans on the horizon. Microsoft fired 2000.
J.T. O'Donnell (21:39.85)
Yeah.
Joel (22:06.494)
quote, low performers this week with several with without severance. A memo outlines strict tools, including rehire bands and transfer limits for low scores. More layoffs may hit managers in May at Microsoft and Amazon last but not least is stepping up plans to lower the ratio of mid management executives to lower level employees because they're cheaper. Probably Chad, your take on all things big tech this week.
Chad (22:33.5)
Yes.
Chad (22:37.031)
So on the employee side of the house, these companies are huge and they're going to continue to do these things. They feel like they've got control in the market and they do right now. So they're going to continue to really push people out or push them down. Because again, money, if they're out, they're not paying them. If they're pushing down, it's less that they're paying them. But when it comes to the monopolies side or the monopoly side of the house,
It's been a long time coming for monopolies. mean, the US government has been asleep at the wheel, allowing some of these app acquisitions to happen. In Google's defense, though, they built search and Chrome, right? And it looks like they might have to divest in Chrome. I mean, Chrome is literally just an extension of Google search. I mean, it's a smart extension, right? It's amazing. YouTube should have never been allowed. It's like it's the number two search engine.
Right behind, right behind Google. and then obviously the ad exchanges is, is, a huge issue. Meta on the other hand, Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, they've got kind of like this buyer berry mentality and they've talked about it, which was dumb, but they've got this buyer or, or, Barry. but the thing that the two big arguments Zuck has is TikTok, surging and YouTube.
which is also seen as another social network, right? So he can kind of like back out on those two. And as we talked about Microsoft, Microsoft has gone through antitrust before they were the last big antitrust company. and they started to engineer cheat codes around antitrust where instead of buying. Microsoft invests large amounts funding startups like open AI. didn't go buy open AI. They just put over a hundred million dollars in.
Joel (24:18.612)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (24:35.707)
Right? So this allows Microsoft the oversight and control without the worry of antitrust. So I guess, you know, the big question for me is how in the hell do they get around this? Cause this is, mean, this is, this is still market manipulation. and then you can talk about Apple. obviously they hold a 55 % market share, on search on mobile because go figure the iPhone and then Amazon. mean,
Joel (25:00.808)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (25:03.897)
Amazon just owns the whole damn system for God's sake. So we need antitrust and we need it now.
J.T. O'Donnell (25:17.486)
I think you covered that. can't, I don't know, yes to all that you said there on that whole side of it. think it's fascinating. I'll be interested to see who buys Chrome. I really think that a lot of people, I think, would love to get their hands on Chrome. For me, the big thing was what, Microsoft is laying the groundwork for what I think a lot of these companies are gonna do, which is you're fired and you can't come back for two years. And I think that is lost on a lot of people what that means. It's really easy now in an interview to be like, oh, you just got laid off from Microsoft? Did you get severance?
Joel (25:17.566)
JT.
Chad (25:34.397)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (25:45.787)
Yeah. No.
J.T. O'Donnell (25:47.374)
It's not an illegal question. It's not an illegal question, folks. Right? So there you go. When you can't say yes, guess what? I know you're not welcome back there. I know you've got let go for performance. This stuff is real. We don't understand that these companies get to decide. And this is one of the reasons I've been talking to people for so long. Stop outsourcing your brand to your employer.
Joel (25:47.86)
That's crazy. That's a brand. That's a brand shot in the foot for Microsoft. Yeah.
J.T. O'Donnell (26:10.702)
Everybody sits around their resume and says, want these companies on my resume. That's your brand. You allow them to manipulate you. And so I get worried with these people that feel like they have to work with these big companies and they want to have all these pedigrees because it's not doing what it used to anymore. And it really can set you up for something like this. These people worked for Microsoft so they could run around and say, I work for Microsoft. And now I'm going to have people coming to my doorstep saying, can I hide that, JT? How do I deal with that? So much bigger ramifications than people realize.
Joel (26:42.174)
Love it.
Joel (26:45.492)
So my favorite part about this whole story is how Big Tech, kissed Trump's ass, went to the inauguration, wrote big checks. And then when, when Metta, gets its feet to the fire, Zuckerberg offers $450 million, on a $30 billion, penalty, right? so like, let's take a huge discount and then, Trump and, and, the FTC, guess.
Chad (26:58.941)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (27:05.863)
Chomp change. Yes.
Joel (27:14.994)
said no. Zuck calls Trump apparently meets with them in some form or fashion moves his offer from 450 million to 1 billion. And Trump says no. So like after all this ass kissing and probably doing like bending over backwards for the government when they want information or terrorist stuff, like, like for, like for the government to just say like, fuck it. Nope.
You're on the hook for 30 bucks. So that's the, that's my favorite part about this whole story is how Zuckerberg and Metta like did everything they thought they should be doing to get like a pass and got screwed on Google. Man, Google has, think six products with a billion plus users. And it's, I think it's less about monopoly than it's just good stuff. Like they just have a better search engine. They have a better browser. They have the best, video play and they're, they're been competitors in the past.
Chad (27:49.373)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (28:11.796)
so it's, hard to me, to give Chrome away or divest Chrome is a throw away that to me, that's like, okay, we'll, we'll give up something. YouTube probably would be a better product as a standalone company. Like I do, I do believe YouTube is held back a little bit by Google, but a lot of the other stuff, docs and Gmail, like, I think it just works and people use it. So I, and like you said, Chad, to Microsoft, this is the, this is the playbook.
Chad (28:22.407)
Mm.
Yes. Yes.
J.T. O'Donnell (28:25.986)
you.
Chad (28:40.893)
Yeah, it's new.
Joel (28:41.266)
launch it, go hard, flood the zone. And then by the time the government and the legal system figures it out, you've already got 90 % of the market and you can kind of call the shots from there. think JT crystallized or set the table for what Microsoft's doing pretty well. Amazon is interesting to me. And we'll talk a little bit about AI taking over later in the show, but there's not a company
Chad (29:03.943)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (29:09.008)
out there that's trying to do more with less. I think that middle management piece is going, and JT, talk about the white collar worker and the knowledge-based worker all the time, and this is, we're seeing it, right? This is the knowledge-based middle man getting squeezed out, going for less expensive workers. And I think that is a pretty interesting development at Amazon.
J.T. O'Donnell (29:30.446)
The executive wasteland is enormous right now. It's just littered with people who thought if I just do good work and climb that ladder, I'm going to be the one that survives, right? And now look who's losing their jobs. It's crazy.
Chad (29:34.593)
I bet.
Joel (29:42.579)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (29:42.907)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you take a, you take a look at before all the layoffs, I mean, it was bloated. I mean, it was bloated and, I think, you know, being able to, and, and, and hopefully you get, get a lot of these executives and they turn around and they, have new startups. I mean, hopefully this leads to more innovation. Right? So you take a look at two things. First and foremost, you're getting rid of some of those individuals and hopefully they go out and create their own innovative organizations.
And then you have the antitrust, you split them up and hopefully there's much more innovation because they are split up, right? One thing that gets me the most though, and I wanted to mention this, is that we always give China shit for stealing IP. I mean, always. That's one of the things that everybody, every business person talks about. What about how Amazon plays around the edges with IP? They develop products that are on their
platform, they duplicate those products, but they go around the IP edges, right? And then they sell against the originals who are on their platform. And then they rank above them. Right? So, I mean, this, this to me, mean, if Google is easy, Microsoft, mean, Facebook, you know, they're having some issues with, obviously YouTube and, and Tik TOK, but Amazon shit, that is a not, that's, that's a shot out of the park.
then add AWS on top of that. Jesus. I mean, it just seems, it seems easy. I don't know why we're so slow other than we're lazy.
Joel (31:12.468)
Hmm.
Joel (31:18.996)
By the way, there's an article in Quartz talking about how Gen X is getting screwed again. They started our careers in a recession, dot bomb, 2008, mortgage crisis, COVID, and now like robots are taking over. And in our older years where we should be making the most money possible, now is when all the robots come and AI comes and takes all the jobs. And while we're the most, the highest paid people, guess who gets screwed? Guess who gets nothing.
Chad (31:24.349)
You
Chad (31:30.813)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (31:50.095)
And guess who got it all? The fucking boomers got it all. Fucking boomers.
Joel (31:51.39)
Gen X once again. Fucking boomers. All right, let's take it. The, yeah, the silver tsunami, the silver tsunami, all the, all the laundromats that are going to be handed down to, to the lucky, the lucky people. Yeah. Yeah. Let's take a quick break. Come back. We'll talk about more doomsday AI stories.
J.T. O'Donnell (31:53.302)
and
That's okay. There's a great wealth transfer coming. We're good. We're good.
Chad (31:59.078)
That's what I'm hearing.
Chad (32:07.483)
And homes, yeah.
Joel (32:18.964)
All right, guys, a recent survey of 84 C-suite executives found by Spark and Missions revealed entry level positions for college grads are being eliminated at 52 % of companies. That's one out of two for people who aren't good at math like me. The survey also revealed that execs believe 51 % of grads lack verbal communication and presentation skills, while 50 % lack
problem solving and critical thinking abilities. What's more, a recent Indeed survey says more than a third of workers regret earning a college degree. yeah, and a startup called Mechanize launched this week promising to quote, the full automation of all work, end quote. JT, the kids are not all right. What's your take on the future of entry level jobs for college grads, college in general, and human work totally disappearing?
J.T. O'Donnell (33:06.264)
Yeah. Yeah.
J.T. O'Donnell (33:13.294)
Yeah, so first of all, I would agree completely. We're seeing that there are no jobs for college grads. As someone who works with, you know, I always have friends that I've grown up with, can you coach my child? The articulation thing is a real problem. I'll get them senior year of college and then we'll get them in their first job and then more recently their second. And the way that they communicate with that two year time in the workplace, significantly different, right? So we do have a really true issue there. And I think any parent listening here today needs to understand that.
your child in order to graduate and get a job is you're going to have to focus on those communication skills big time. College degree thing, we've been talking about that for a while. I'm just seeing so many young people get in and decide to not finish. And again, my youngest daughter just took a semester off. Junior in college, she's making six figures a month in her business.
So she took a semester off to say, I think I need to work on the business mom. I'm like, six figures a month? Yeah, you probably do. That's crazy, crazy business money.
Joel (34:12.532)
Not a month, a year. 100K a month? 100K a month? She's making 100K a month. What? All right, say more.
J.T. O'Donnell (34:20.16)
Yes. Yeah.
So do I need to say anymore? And so she's like, is it makes sense to go to I can probably finish mom community college online. Yeah, she probably can. So you just have to ask yourself, they have so much access to information and knowledge. They have no bad habits. They have no preconceived notions. your kid, you know what she does do? She's watched every episode of Shark Tank. So there are going to be.
young people out there that need to go at it a different way. And if you're a parent out there listening and your kid saying, think I can make money doing this, give them a shot, because there's no jobs for them to get when they graduate right now. And that's going to be that way for a little bit here. So teach them to be entrepreneurs. Their business is one.
Joel (35:02.686)
God, I'm a loser. God, I'm a loser. I'm sitting here talking to you idiots with an aluminum foil hat on my head.
Chad (35:04.065)
Yeah. Look at that. Look at, look, look at the hat you got. Yeah. I mean, this is on you, man. This is on you.
Joel (35:12.692)
I took a wrong turn at Albuquerque or something. I don't know what.
Chad (35:16.029)
Bugs Bunny, good one. So around these kids not being able to get any of these skills, this is the problem of the system. We don't have mentorship and development like we used to. We don't. And then now we take a look at education and then we look at it as bad. Are you fucking kidding me? That's because the system's fucked up. Because we have...
Joel (35:18.654)
Yeah, fuck's funny.
Chad (35:44.997)
We have charged way too damn much and put all these kids in debt. Right? And then, well, wait a minute, before we did that, blue collar jobs were bad. Right? You don't want to be blue collar jobs. You want to go into college. Well, then everybody went into college and then they charged the shit out of them. Right? So, I mean, this is a systemic problem from the top down. And this is about fucking workforce. Period. This is all about workforce. And if we don't have people right now,
Understand robots are coming. If we don't have people doing the jobs, you're not going to get the revenues. It's just not going to happen. To the mechanize. So they talk about full automation of work and full automation of the economy. Okay. So when you hear something like that, you think of the clarinus CEO, right? Who's just bullshitting and he's doing that for pre IPO buzz, right? It's all pre IPO PR buzz. Well, the difference is that the mechanize founder
Joel (36:28.948)
in.
Chad (36:40.413)
and see CEO to may Bursa Bursa glue. That's a hard one. He's not a slouch lives in the Bay Area, still an associate director at epoch AI, a company that is in big letters on their website, quote, investigating the trajectory of AI for the benefit of society. What the hell does that mean? Well, epoch analyzes the economic impact of AI.
and produces benchmarks for AI performance for companies like OpenAI. They do a much better job of sequencing those types of things. So before he was at Epoch AI, the CEO, he was a research scientist at MIT. Yes, MIT. Then before that, he was also a research intern
at the Future of Humanity Institute at Oxford. Yes, at Oxford. He also had a Master of Philosophy from the University of Cambridge. This guy's no slouch, okay? So at the end of the day, you want to think of market potential just in the US, right? Because they're looking at agentic and they're looking to actually take over human jobs. There's estimated $18 trillion.
in aggregate wages just in the US alone. So this is where I call bullshit. He said, and he argues, that having agents do all the work will actually enrich humans, not impoverish them, through economic explosion, explosive economic growth. Okay, so this guy is fucking killing me. He doesn't understand that the only...
He can't make trickle down work. We haven't been able to make trickle down work. AI is not going to make trickle down work. This is lunacy. The problem is we have incredibly smart people who have these visions that are out there and they just don't align with reality. That's a problem. We talked about it, about mentorship, development, education, blue collar. That was all vision. It all went to shit. This is the same kind of stuff, man. Long diatribe.
Joel (38:56.744)
Mm-hmm.
J.T. O'Donnell (39:06.424)
I have great faith in the creator economy though. I do. just, economy, right? I say that word because you see how it's, for example, TikTok in China is not our TikTok. It's an educational platform. It's where people are just learning and absorbing all sorts of things. And when I think about the creator economy that's coming upon us and how people could teach what they know, learn from others, and that becomes a monetization center.
I do see a world where that's pretty exciting and that there's a lot of opportunity there. What I struggle with is how many jobs are being lost until that innovation, you said it best, the bigger the disruption, the bigger the innovation. We've seen that historically, but they never coincide at the same time. So we're in, we're going to a lot of pain here for a while. We're going to have a lot of pain here, but I think I am ultimately an optimist and as someone who is seeing the possibilities and actually executing on them in the creator economy and seeing what we all can do. I mean, you're part of the creator economy right here with this podcast. it's incredible.
what I think we'll be able to do and that's exciting and interesting to people. You know, like I'd rather use my brain that way than to do that stuff that doesn't light me up. So I guess I'm overly optimistic but I see an incredible future ahead, pain for a while but then a really interesting future ahead.
Chad (40:14.781)
I think it's amazing. I don't think it's enough to actually bridge the gap that we're actually heading into. I think it's gonna be good for some people. It's not gonna be good for the greater good period of all those people. It's just too big.
Joel (40:32.852)
I bring up my new, uh, Tik Tok fascination. It's, called, it's called friendliest catch. And they catch these crabs that have barnacles growing on them and they, they pinch off the barnacles. It's like dermatology meets with the wild kingdom. It's, fascinating stuff. And there's another guy that does it with lobsters. So barnacles grow on these lobsters. They pick them off. It's great. It's great. It's awesome. Learning. No learning. No entertained.
Chad (40:36.388)
good God.
J.T. O'Donnell (40:36.782)
Bring it.
Chad (40:43.516)
Mm-hmm.
J.T. O'Donnell (40:58.22)
Incredible. Monetization of what you know, right there. But still good. They're getting paid per click. Paid per click. Paid per click. That's it. You know, you get a million views. That's not jump change.
Chad (41:02.045)
going to say, how do they make money doing that? That's what it is. Yes.
Joel (41:03.558)
Entertained, yes.
Chad (41:10.749)
And then you sell that crab on top of it. you're double dip. Oh yeah, they throw them back into a net. No, they throw them back into a net.
Joel (41:14.738)
They throw them back in. throw them back in. It's a party. put them on the operating table. They clip the barnacles off and it's like, Hey buddy, they even give them a little snack when they throw them back in. It's great. Friendliest catch. it out. By the way, since this is a recruiting show for the most part, Kevin Wheeler, friend of the show, had an article on his sub stack recently. It was really good. want to quote what he said. I am tired of hearing AI won't take your job, but someone using AI will.
J.T. O'Donnell (41:17.398)
You give them names, you do memes, merch.
Joel (41:41.63)
This is false reassurance for recruiters. AI isn't just automating tasks. It's dismantling everything recruiting has been based on. The role isn't evolving. It's disappearing. Wow. That, that got my attention.
Chad (41:57.373)
That's a deeper discussion. I don't agree, but yeah.
Joel (42:01.894)
All right. Let's take a quick break. If you like what you're hearing, make sure you go leave us a positive review or a negative view. We don't care. We just like reviews. subscribe to our YouTube channel or slide in our DMS. I don't know. Do something, whatever the kids are doing these days, whatever the kids are doing. Yeah. Sign up for free stuff. we love you. Go buy, go to work at daily by JT stuff, buy your kids stuff like she needs any more money. Good God. We'll be right back.
Chad (42:14.961)
Chatcheese.com slash free. Get a t-shirt.
Chad (42:24.669)
Pro Voice book.
Joel (42:30.452)
All right. I'm calling this the word doomed segment of the show because it's been so happy go lucky up to this point. right. Palmer lucky and Dural founder urges the US to heavily invest in weapons, arguing that quote Pandora's box and quote was opened decades ago with autonomous systems like anti radiation missiles. The hell is that? Speaking at a Ted live event, he warned that failing to advance AI weaponry.
risks China surpassing the US in a future autonomous weapons race. and I mentioned my half marathon this week. I'm in big trouble too, because these robots run. More than 20 robots raced against thousands of human runners this week in a half marathon in Beijing organized to showcase China's advances in humanoid technology. Chad, this isn't your military.
from 40 years ago and it's not the world you joined 53 years ago. What are your thoughts?
Chad (43:29.937)
So robots running half marathons, I mean, that's just an effort to humanize and normalize. mean, you get it, right? They are testing, don't get me wrong, but they also want to normalize what we're seeing. Lucky, he has three major messages that he can use in this endeavor for him to make more and more and more money. Fear, China's gonna beat us to the next super weapon. That's scary, that's fearful. Hearts and minds.
Americans don't need to die on the battlefield, right? That's win hearts and minds. Hey, allow the robots to do it. They don't need to do it. And then history. This is probably the most scary. So from a historical sense, Lucky's right. There are definite innovations and technologies that helped us win wars, tanks, airplanes. And what if Germany or Japan beat us to developing the atomic weapon in World War II, right?
If you haven't seen Man in the High Castle, go watch Man in the High Castle. I don't believe he's right, or I do believe he's right, but I believe we should be developing these weapons under strict oversight. Elon can turn on and off Starlink at will. That should not be allowed and should be under government's oversight, period. The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, also known as DARPA,
you know, the, agency that developed the internet GPS drones and a variety of advanced robotic systems, they should be leading in watching these efforts, not allowing guys like Musk and lucky to prospectively burn the goddamn world down.
Joel (45:19.892)
JT.
J.T. O'Donnell (45:21.414)
I just don't think I can add beyond it. It's just so your brain, we've all seen enough movies. Your just brain goes to those extremely dark places with what this can be used for and you know, in all of those movies, it didn't end well for us. So, you know, I, yeah, I don't even want to belabor it. I'll let you, you take it over with that beautiful hat of yours. Yeah.
Joel (45:41.896)
Not just movies, but real life, which brings us to this week's.
Chad (45:48.413)
my favorite.
Joel (45:49.204)
All right. Let me take you back to September 1939, known as an event known as the charge at Grahonti. Poland on horseback charges the German armored resistance or invading force. I'll let you guess how that ended for them. Not very well. A lot of dead soldiers and a lot of dead horses. Poland was fighting a war from 1914.
Chad (45:58.706)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (46:16.436)
Germany was fighting a brand new war and technology almost always wins in a military conflict. So it makes perfect sense to be very afraid that China or Russia's or North Korea's AI is better than ours and we have nothing to fight back against it. The challenge, what's going to be interesting is can AI disable nuclear weapons?
I'm speaking science fiction. I don't know. There are people smarter than me. Can they, can they put some gamma rays, some crazy shit like, star wars base space force like knock some nuclear weapons? I don't know. But if, if the world has been a pretty safe place when everyone knows that mutual assured destruction is going to happen, we've all been kind of cool. We've all been kind of playing it on the low key. But if somebody gets a weapon that they say,
Chad (46:53.095)
Hawk.
Chad (47:07.367)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (47:13.394)
we can eliminate the nuclear threat. It's going to be bad for the sides that don't have that technology. I, I totally, totally appreciate where he's coming from from there. So sonar, what was it? Radar gun missile. I don't know what the hell is going on. Yeah, I don't, I don't really do military stuff that well, but dad jokes, dad jokes. I do. I do pretty well guys.
J.T. O'Donnell (47:18.414)
you
Chad (47:29.649)
Radar gun missile.
Chad (47:36.146)
Yeah.
Chad (47:39.973)
is your weapon of choice. Yes, yes.
Joel (47:41.596)
Yeah, this is my deadly weapon. Weapon of mass destruction, if you will. All right, guys. What's the hardest part about eating a vegetable? What's the hardest part about eating a vegetable?
Chad (47:56.797)
There's so much iron in the vegetable.
Joel (48:00.766)
putting them back in the wheelchair.
Chad (48:03.325)
come on, man. That's so bad. So bad.
Joel (48:06.406)
We out.
J.T. O'Donnell (48:06.892)
Me out.
J.T. O'Donnell (48:11.554)
Just kidding.