In this episode of the Chad and Cheese Podcast, hosts Joel Cheesman and Emi Beredugo discuss Halloween festivities, share a humorous story about a naked neighbor incident, and delve into the upcoming US elections from a British perspective. They also touch on the cultural impact of Taylor Swift's concerts, highlight innovative recruiting platforms, and provide updates on their fantasy football league.
Then they discuss the implications of AI in recruitment, focusing on LinkedIn's new Hiring Assistant tool and its potential to streamline recruitment tasks. They explore the impact of AI on coding jobs, the evolving role of recruiters, and the challenges of integrating AI while maintaining human connection. The discussion also touches on hiring trends for 2025, emphasizing the importance of adapting to new technologies and the need for recruiters to upskill in a changing job market.
Emi and Joel discuss the evolving landscape of hiring practices, particularly the shift towards skills-based hiring. They explore the mindset of Gen Z, who prioritize mental health and work-life balance over traditional hustle culture. The discussion also highlights the alarming trend of prime-age men leaving the workforce, attributing it to economic shifts and societal pressures. Finally, they delve into the implications of influencer culture on society, questioning its long-term effects on individual identity and societal values.
Joel (00:43.214)
Yeah, here's Johnny, who are you gonna call and the power of podcasting compels you. Hey boys and girls, it's the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel Garbage Truck Cheeseman.
Emi B (00:55.921)
And this is Emi Kroba-Numulayo Beredugo. She's back again.
Joel (01:00.504)
And on this episode, LinkedIn is here to assist. No, really. Google proves we're in year two of the year of efficiency, and Gen Z is feeling nothing but tricks from employers this Halloween. Let's do this.
Emi B (01:18.111)
Topics!
Joel (01:26.894)
She's back. She's back. Happy Halloween. Happy Halloween.
Emi B (01:32.129)
Happy Halloween to you as well!
Joel (01:34.894)
One of my favorite holidays, as you can tell. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see the outfit I've got on. I think the mullet suits me. I don't know about you, but I think this might be my new look. Not the jail part.
Emi B (01:46.379)
Jo, I think you look wonderful. I mean, honestly, I think you need to wear this all the time. know, honestly, it takes years off for you.
Joel (01:52.396)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks. The, the prison outfit, man. That's yeah, it's kind of a Willy Wonka, British 19th century kind of, kind of gig. like it. I like it. Are you, are you going to any parties tonight? You're to go trick or treating what what's, what's London like on Halloween?
Emi B (01:57.089)
What are you thinking of my hat? It's not quite Halloween.
Emi B (02:04.553)
Yeah.
Emi B (02:09.245)
Yeah, it's good.
Emi B (02:16.449)
Well, we do actually do quite a lot of trick or treating. So if I'm judging by last year, lots of the kids come round. I've actually got sweets in the kitchen for when the kids come and knock on the door. So it's cool, but I'm not going out tonight because I'm playing netball. So yeah, I'll be celebrating Halloween at the weekend.
Joel (02:34.488)
So if kids come to the door, they got nothing. Are you going to have like a little bowl of food, a little bowl of sweets, as you said?
Emi B (02:41.801)
Yeah, we've got sweets and we've got &Ms and we've got Skittles. Are those things in the US? &Ms? Yeah. yeah, of course.
Joel (02:44.331)
Okay.
they were made in America. Come on. Most of the candies you eat are American productions for sure. Creations.
Emi B (02:53.621)
Yeah, that's actually true. Yeah, I'm actually just adopting it. I've got twix for them as well. So I went to the supermarket and I bought lots of little treats for them. So I'm looking forward to it.
Joel (03:02.56)
Yeah. So I got, I got a seven year old, so I'm full on Halloween. my wife and I, are the cheesy like combo, costume people and we're doing chips and salsa. So I'm like a thing of salsa. She's going to be a chip. so anyway, that's, that's really cheesy American suburb shit that we're doing, tonight, but I have a, I have a little bit of story that I want to tell you. I think it's funny. So we have, do you have these ring ring, cameras in, London?
Emi B (03:13.185)
Ooh.
Emi B (03:18.569)
I love that.
Emi B (03:25.302)
Go for it.
Emi B (03:30.601)
Yeah, the ring doorbells, yeah.
Joel (03:31.03)
A lot of people have these. Okay. So, my wife wanted one last Christmas and she got it and it records people to come to the door. It plays a little sound. when someone comes to the door, kind of annoying, but she's, she's kind of a paranoid wants to know everything that's going on at all times. So anyway, I'm, I'm, I'm dead asleep. She's an early morning person. I'm dead asleep. Five 40 probably in the morning. She comes in, shakes me and she says, Joel.
I just called nine one one. There's a naked guy at our door. Okay. so all I hear first I hear is first I hear is I called nine one one and I'm thinking, Holy shit. The kid, like one of the kids is in trouble. Somebody's like somebody is in trouble. And then after that it's followed with there's a naked guy at the front at the front door. So I'm like, my God. I thought someone's on meth. Someone's high on some shit walking around the neighborhood, naked.
Emi B (04:08.619)
What?
Emi B (04:15.187)
Yeah.
Joel (04:30.678)
So anyway, I go out, I look out the door, I open the door. She's like, don't open the door. There's no one there. So she, she brings up the ring, the ring camera and it tapes tapes, what it records and puts on your phone. So she shows it to me, but I don't have my glasses on. So I go, okay. It just, it looks like a shadowy figure at the door. And then I go upstairs. We calm down a little bit. No, no, you know, no one's really at the door. So I put my glasses on and look at it I go.
Emi B (04:40.351)
Yeah.
Emi B (04:51.745)
Okay.
Joel (04:59.758)
That's our neighbor, Andrea. So, so I'm like, okay, well, why was she at our door? So then she was not naked. I don't know why. No, she was, I guess in pajamas, but she was not naked. She was at our door, didn't ring the doorbell, but kind of looked inside, came to the door. And then my wife goes, where's the dog? shit. So
Emi B (05:07.211)
Why was she naked? okay.
Emi B (05:13.825)
Okay.
Joel (05:23.352)
We're looking for the dog. The dog shows up at the back door. But then as we looked at our phones, she had gotten a message from Andrea on Facebook with a picture of our dog saying, is this your dog? got out. he growled at me and ran away. So what happened was our dog got out, showed up at her door. She took a picture, tried to get the dog back. She came, she was probably going to ring the doorbell if we were awake or like knock on the door, but she didn't see anybody. So it was totally nothing.
Emi B (05:38.689)
Okay.
Emi B (05:45.379)
Yeah.
Joel (05:52.014)
But for me to be awakened at 5 40 a.m. with I call 911, there's a naked person at our door was very, very unnerving, almost unnerving as the election that's coming on. But yeah, I don't know if you have any funny stories like that, but.
Emi B (05:56.317)
Make it
Emi B (06:01.877)
So.
Emi B (06:09.045)
I don't have any stories about naked people being at my front door or imagine me naked people.
Joel (06:13.72)
I'm glad you added at the front door. Cause I know everyone, everybody's got a good naked person story. Everybody's got my good, my good naked, my good naked person story. The first time went to San Francisco, my friend drove me around the around town and took me to hate and Asbury. don't know if you've been to San Francisco, but hate and Asbury is sort of the hippie gay center of San Francisco. And there's a naked guy, totally naked, just walk like crosswalk across the street. And I'm like,
Emi B (06:18.675)
Wow!
Emi B (06:25.056)
Yeah.
Emi B (06:30.975)
Yes, I have.
Emi B (06:34.889)
Yeah.
Joel (06:42.168)
That's a fucking naked dude just like out in public and they're like, yeah, it's legal. Like, okay, this is San Francisco. All right. Naked person story. It was then I think it still is. I mean, San Fran is a freaky deaky place, man. They, they do all kinds of like anything kind of goes in San Francisco.
Emi B (06:42.729)
Interesting
Emi B (06:46.783)
Yeah, standard. Sorry, did you say it's legal to walk around naked in San Francisco?
Emi B (07:00.255)
Yeah, okay, so I went two years ago, but I didn't see any naked people. I feel like I'm missing out. I don't know where I went. Yeah. okay. Yeah, I don't think.
Joel (07:04.814)
Yeah, this, would have been like 25 years ago, straight up my first time in San Francisco. Maybe they passed some laws or things have changed. did you go to hate and Asbury?
Emi B (07:15.873)
I can't, do you know what, where did I go? I don't think I went there. I went to wherever the dolphins were. No, the sea lions. Yeah. On the pier. That's the one. I did that. And I did the cable cars and I went to, I did go to the hippie district, but I didn't, yeah, like I said, I feel like I missed out. I wanted to see some naked people, you know? I did.
Joel (07:22.958)
Okay, Pier 39 or whatever the pier, yeah, okay.
Okay.
Joel (07:36.718)
Sounds like you did a lot of touristy shit. You got to go into the underbelly of San Francisco to really feel what San Francisco's got going on.
Emi B (07:44.019)
See, I was on a work trip, so I had to stay safe. It was my first week in my new job. So was like, I'm in San Francisco, yay. They flew me out. Yeah, so it's cool. It is. Yeah.
Joel (07:46.787)
Yeah.
Joel (07:50.894)
It's a cool town. It is not what it used to be, but it's a cool town. So we covered Halloween. I don't know if you heard there's an election coming up here in the US. Yeah, there is. Yeah, yeah. Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. From a British point of view, is it just nuts? Who cares? What's the vibe over in Britain?
Emi B (08:01.117)
Is that? No, I didn't hear about that.
Yeah!
Emi B (08:12.167)
you know what is everywhere. Yeah, I'm finding it fascinating, especially because we've actually just gone through our own election. So where the kind of Labour government finally got in after years of not being in power. So now everything is focused on the US elections. you know, I listen to podcasts on it, I listen to YouTube's on it. Like I'm constantly trying to consume information. And I'm just like, wow, which which way is it going? I honestly have no idea. I honestly have no idea.
Joel (08:18.286)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (08:23.724)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (08:36.803)
Yeah.
Emi B (08:39.969)
I talked to one group of people that say, yeah, Trump is definitely in 100%. They love him because he's not like your typical politician. He's like your person on the street. I'm like, is he? Because he was born with a silver spoon. It doesn't matter how he talks, no matter how many incorrect facts that he spouts out, they still think that he's going to be in power. I'm a Kamala girl. So I'm hoping that she gets in. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. But I think it's scary. I think it's going to be tight.
Joel (08:44.536)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (08:57.485)
Yep.
Joel (09:04.205)
Yeah.
Joel (09:10.602)
It feels like angry men versus scared women and who who's gonna, who's gonna, who's gonna come out. And, I don't know. It's, the, the, the, electoral college, I don't know if Brits understand that all that well, but the, the electoral map favors her. and I would say if you're watching in Europe, if, Pennsylvania gets called for either one, that's
Emi B (09:15.817)
Yeah.
Emi B (09:24.948)
Yeah.
Emi B (09:30.069)
Yeah.
Joel (09:39.288)
Probably your winner. That's probably where it's going to go. mean, Pennsylvania is so important in the, in the math that, but yeah, it's, I I'm excited for it to be done. I'm excited for, text spam, hitting my phone multiple times an hour, not even a day. It's just out of control. I'm ha I'm, I'm excited for that. What Europe does right is they do elections really quickly. It's like they call it. Yeah. The U S.
Emi B (09:41.204)
Really?
Yeah.
Emi B (10:04.479)
Yeah, over and done with. I feel like this has been going on forever, you know, with a whole Biden and then bringing in Kamala and this is like, okay, when it, it, but we've got seven days now, it's seven days, isn't it? Yeah, seven days until we know who comes out on top.
Joel (10:10.072)
Yes.
Joel (10:16.564)
Even less than that by the time this airs, it'll be like four days. Yeah. Four days to go. anyway, yeah. The next week show should be interesting. Yeah. We should have some stuff to talk about next week. and we got Taylor Swift in Indianapolis. she's a huge deal. She's going to bring more money to this city than the super bowl. we had about 15 or so years ago. So she is a, she's a phenomenon. She's she is.
Emi B (10:20.393)
Woo! I think I'm going to stay up and watch it. Yeah.
Emi B (10:30.024)
Love, love Taylor.
Emi B (10:38.881)
She's brilliant. I had no idea that she was so good. I went to Taylor Swift concert this year and I wasn't a Swiftie, but at end of that three hour concert, I was a Swiftie. was like, yes. You know, singing all my songs. I was like, I get it. I get it. I totally get it. Swapping my bracelets with people. I'm like, I'm there. I'm never too old to be a Swiftie. Yeah.
Joel (10:56.666)
She's, she's, she's something else that everyone's up in arms because, there the, the stadium, has said there's no tailgating outside or like within the, the area of the, stadium. And apparently if you're a Swifty, the tailgating is a big part of it. So if you don't have a ticket, you can't get into the, the parking lot to tailgate. So all the Midwestern, people are really, really upset about that. Up in arms, up in arms. Let's get to some.
Emi B (11:12.308)
Yeah.
Emi B (11:18.601)
Yeah.
up in arms.
Joel (11:25.282)
Some shout outs, shall we? And as you know, our shout outs.
Joel (11:31.534)
are sponsored by Kiara, that's text recruiting made simple. You got a shout out, Emmy?
Emi B (11:38.655)
I do have a shout out actually. My shout outs for a company called Poetry. So for people who haven't heard of them, you need to go check this company out. I think they are brilliant. I think they're ahead of their time. So basically they are a recruiting enablement platform. it's for people like, know, obviously we all know that recruiters are busy. They're trying to do a hundred things at once. There's never enough time in your day. This platform actually allows...
Joel (11:54.798)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (12:05.181)
It consolidates all that kind of like research information, all the tools that you need to make your life faster, whether it's like creating interview questions, helping you to create a job description, trying to find out about different competitors in the market so you can effectively sell your role against other companies. You know, that's just just the tip of the iceberg with all the things that this platform can do. And they're really at initial stages at the moment. But I genuinely think they, you know, they're going to go far.
Joel (12:28.91)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (12:32.065)
And like I said, they're ahead of their time. So they are my shout out for this week.
Joel (12:37.838)
And I hear they're from Scotland. Is that, is that true?
Emi B (12:40.161)
They are. I'm not even going to attempt to do the Scottish. Does that sound Scottish? Does that sound Scottish? Scottish? Scottish? Scottish?
Joel (12:44.696)
somehow Scottish, Scottish. Yeah. you know, no one gets more airtime than Adam Gordon and Steven and poetry without paying, without paying for any of it. The, those, then those cats. So, yeah, the Scottish, it is that we've the seduction of the Scots just makes you talk about them. And next thing you know, they're selling their companies for millions of dollars. So good. Good on them. Good on them.
Emi B (12:56.011)
He's everywhere. Yeah.
Emi B (13:10.257)
it's the accent, it is. No one can be the sexy squad accent. Yeah.
Joel (13:14.582)
Yeah. And speaking of selling, I got a shout out to Roberto Angulo. Roberto was previously the CEO of recruitology, which was acquired by Job Case a few years ago. And you never know when someone sells a company. Roberto has been in the industry for a long time. He started after college back in the early 2000s. And you never know, are they going to do it again? Are they going to like retire to Fiji? Like what are they going to do?
Emi B (13:20.225)
Emi B (13:24.587)
Okay.
Emi B (13:42.998)
Yeah.
Joel (13:43.98)
Roberto is back. He's now the CEO of a company called Fonda. Fonda helps Latino owned restaurants in, marketing online and their online presence. So just shout out to Roberto. Really a great guy, just a nice guy. And it's good to see him back, back, back in the fold. And I have another shout out and this just passed this just care. So do know what, do know Jimmy John's? Okay.
Emi B (13:48.385)
Okay.
Emi B (14:10.249)
No. Is that a US thing?
Joel (14:11.99)
It's it's a restaurant. It's a US restaurant. So Jimmy John's is like deli sandwiches, of like hoagies, like cold meat, toppings. It's a sandwich. It's like a sub. if you know Subway, if you know Subway, okay. If you know Subway, you know, Jimmy John's anyway, Jimmy John's launch, get this. They call it the pickle, which. And it's a, it's a big pickle and they cut it in half and then they kind of gut it. And then they put the toppings in the pickle.
Emi B (14:13.855)
Okay.
Emi B (14:22.219)
Was a hoagie?
Emi B (14:26.561)
Okay, yeah, no subway, yeah.
Joel (14:41.1)
So it's a pickle sandwich called the pickle witch. it's, it's apparently great. If you like pickles, it's like an amazing experience. So I'm going to go to Jimmy John's this weekend. I'm going to try the pickle, which, I'll, I'll, I'll report back on what my thoughts thoughts on it were.
Emi B (14:43.439)
You
Emi B (14:51.521)
Okay?
Emi B (14:56.573)
Yeah, I'll be listening out for that one because that sounds horrendous to me. I'm not going to lie. And I like pickles, but a whole massive...
Joel (15:01.09)
Ha
Joel (15:05.87)
It is creative and it is is some great marketing. Now, you know, at Chad and Cheese, we send a lot of free stuff to our listeners. And I think that if the pickle would keep in a mailing situation, I guess we could put it in a refrigeration. But I would I would say the pickle, which would be a nice giveaway, but we don't do that. However, if you like free stuff, we're giving away beer from our friends at Aspen Tech Labs. mentioned the the syrup that's aged in pappy.
Emi B (15:15.871)
Yeah.
Emi B (15:32.065)
Woop woop.
Joel (15:34.808)
bourbon barrels. It's delicious. We send that that's from our friends at Kiora. We have a bourbon selection from Chad and myself that's sponsored by Tex Colonel slash bullhorn. And if it's your birthday, Emmy, if it's your birthday, we might send you a bottle of rum from our friends at plum.
Emi B (15:53.601)
Emi B (15:57.803)
That sounds amazing.
Joel (15:59.022)
Now we did birthdays a couple of weeks ago, so we're all, we're all good on, on, birthdays, but we'll be giving out a whole new bottle as we head into, November. Good God. The, the year is going fast.
Emi B (16:13.675)
Can I pretend it's my birthday?
you
Joel (16:19.672)
But November means we're still in football season and we got to go real quickly. the leaderboard in fantasy football sponsored by our friends at factory fix number one in the number one spot, Emmy.
Emi B (16:34.421)
Who is it?
Joel (16:38.284)
It's me motherfucker. I'm in first place. I'm in first place. So everyone can at least for a week suck it. I'm in first place followed by, Jennifer Terry, Tharp, Dean Mackerel, David Stifle, Chad. So wash right there in the middle, Keith Sonderling, the commission, Laura Martinelli, Jackson, Dawkwist, Christie Lisbon, Dina, Perot for pyros. Your man, Adam Gordon is he's, he's ready to hug the bottom. He's ready for the, for the basement. but
Emi B (16:42.901)
Ciao!
Joel (17:07.47)
For now, that is occupied by our friend, Sean Horton, and that is.
Emi B (17:07.471)
I'm rooting for him.
Joel (17:18.136)
Can I find it? And that is fantasy football's leaderboard for week eight in football, which leads us to.
Emi B (17:30.379)
Topics!
Joel (17:33.784)
Very nice, very nice. All right, LinkedIn has introduced Hiring Assistant, an AI tool designed to automate various recruitment tasks from job description drafting to candidate sourcing and initial engagement. Initially available to select large enterprises, it's poised for wider adoption heading into 2025. Emmy, big deal, little deal or no deal from LinkedIn.
Emi B (17:56.83)
It is.
Emi B (18:00.477)
I think it's a big deal. I am applauding LinkedIn for this one. So for people who don't know, bring on the sound effects. So basically it's an AI feature. like, you know, like a lot of companies, everybody's obviously, that's all everyone talks about now, AI, AI, you know, how's it going to make our lives more easier? How's it going to speed up our hiring process? How's it going to increase productivity? So, know, LinkedIn obviously like every other company has jumped on a bandwagon.
Joel (18:08.078)
You
Emi B (18:29.483)
But what I really love about this is that it's really focusing on the recruiter and helping us to make our lives easier. it's got, know, for anyone who's not a part of the trial at the moment, you know, when it does come out, yeah, get on board because it's designed to kind of take on a whole load of kind of recruitment tasks. So you can do things from, you know, like let's say you go to a job intake meeting with your hiring manager, you're writing your notes down on a piece of paper.
It's not, it's not new real notes. You might be helping your hiring manager to develop a job description that takes time. And then after that, obviously you've to go and source candidates and engage with them. All of that takes time. As I said, with LinkedIn hiring assistant, it actually automates all that for you. So you can put in your kind of like your scrappy notes that you've got on pieces of paper. You can just put that into there and then it actually changes it. Takes what you put down into full job descriptions, which is amazing.
That's going to save you, like I said, a whole bunch of time. It then takes that job description and turns it into a list of qualifications. So, and then helps you to identify a pipeline of candidates. Then you could just intermittently, you know, so it automatically interacts with. So all of that, which normally takes you, you know, it could take you a day, two days. And when you've got a number of roles to recruit that all, you know, that's actually eating into the valuable time that you have to speak to candidates. This does it all for you. So.
Joel (19:28.739)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (19:53.207)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (19:56.421)
I'm a big fan of this, know, I'm looking forward to kind of using it properly myself.
Joel (20:01.674)
Okay, okay. Well, so my initial thought was...
That's right. thought, I'm not falling for it. LinkedIn, I'm not falling for it every so often. Hold on. said, this is my initial thought. Just relax a little bit. I know you're, I know you're hyped up. so every, every so often LinkedIn drops something and everyone freaks out about it. a few years ago they had, they launched their ATS and everyone said, my God, work day, ISEMS smart. Everyone's in trouble. Like
Emi B (20:11.877)
Emi B (20:15.329)
Okay, okay. I know I am.
Emi B (20:30.495)
Yeah.
Joel (20:36.056)
They're going to kill all the ATSs. And then about a year after, no one's talking about it. Everyone has kind of forgotten. They, they haven't done it effectively and it just goes by the wayside. You'll remember they had stories for a while, kind of the Snapchat, Tik Toks. They're kind of, I think, kind of get back to that, which is a good, a good thing, but they do stuff. the, execution sucks, which is kind of their Achilles heel. They can do stuff, but for whatever reason, the execution just falls flat.
Emi B (20:36.342)
Yeah
Emi B (20:48.788)
Yeah.
Joel (21:03.372)
So when I heard about this, my initial thought was here we go again, another LinkedIn bomb, which everyone is going to forget about in about a year or so. However, however, I had, had, I, we have some cameras, hidden cameras in some of the vendors, out there and we have a, we have a hidden, hidden microphone and seek outs office. And this is what we, what we heard.
Emi B (21:14.721)
Mm.
Joel (21:32.886)
Yeah. So I do think that anecdotally I'm hearing more and more recruiters say, yes, I'm totally using LinkedIn's current AI tools, whether it's writing letters or correspondence or like they're totally digging it, totally digging it. And they like it, which you don't hear a lot of recruiters say, I'm liking what LinkedIn is given us.
Emi B (21:42.271)
Yeah. Yeah.
outreach emails, yeah, yeah.
Emi B (21:54.014)
Exactly.
Joel (21:55.606)
So that's a really good sign. know that they're owned by Microsoft. know that open AI and Microsoft are in bed together. So it makes sense that they can cheat and start putting some of these cool ass AI tools, directly into their, into their services. So it makes perfect sense. Plug in all these automated tools that, that services like, I don't know, hire easy seek out, anyone who's doing automated stuff like that should be a little concerned about where this goes and watch it carefully.
I also think you look at the data. No one has more profiles than LinkedIn. have like all this and they're doing a better job at like engaging people and getting them back to the side and keeping them on the site. They're doing better stuff with video. So long story short, I mean, I'm, I'm cautiously optimistic that LinkedIn is going to get this right. and that a lot of vendors are going to be sort of concerned that are doing this for, people now.
Emi B (22:30.581)
that links in.
Emi B (22:51.627)
So you have more faith in them now. Yeah. Yeah.
Joel (22:53.728)
I do because it is so important. AI is clearly the future. And if you're not doing it, you're in trouble and LinkedIn has a pipeline into AI central, which is open AI and Microsoft. So my, my concern would be, if you, if, if you have so many tasks like that done by recruiters in LinkedIn, do you need fewer recruiters to do the job? If this augments recruiters to being much more efficient and effective, does, companies need less or fewer recruiters and that's
Emi B (23:04.341)
Exactly. Yeah.
Joel (23:23.16)
For our industry, would be the fear that I would have. Any thoughts around, is this going to replace or kick out some of the recruiters on teams?
Emi B (23:27.231)
Yeah!
And I think it's a valid concern because AI is still pretty new. People still kind of get their heads around it. So I get that people think, AI is going to automate all of our jobs so they don't need us anymore. But what I say that the role of a recruiter is not predominantly admin. That's not where recruiters add the most value. It's not a case of like scheduling interviews, for example. It's not sending outreach emails.
All of those tasks are important, but where recruiters add the most value is when they're interacting with the hiring manager, interacting with interviewers, advising them on the marketplace, advising them on the prevalence of skills in the marketplace. It's talking to candidates, it's selling the employer's proposition, it's positioning them as a company, a destination that people want to work for. That is where recruiters add the most value. Yes, you need all this other admin. Yes, you need to...
Joel (24:22.712)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (24:27.433)
you know, pull together job description. But those tasks now with things like, you know, this LinkedIn new feature, like other AI technology, it automates it for you. It frees you up to actually concentrate on a more value added task. And so this is where I think AI is fantastic, but AI is never going to replace a human. It's not, you know, you don't use AI to, or you shouldn't use AI if you're using it responsibly to make decisions.
Joel (24:37.24)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (24:49.784)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (24:56.265)
It's not a decision-making tool because technology doesn't understand the nuances of people. It's a robot. So you're always going to have to need a human. So do I think that recruiters will replace? No, not necessarily, but it'll turn into more strategic HR recruiting professionals.
Joel (25:01.389)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (25:08.258)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (25:18.318)
Do you think that AI and automation makes recruiting more enjoyable as a profession? Yeah, okay.
Emi B (25:23.209)
I, to be honest, yes. You know, when I was back in the day, when I was recruiting all the time, I, you know, I hate admin. I've always hated admin. I'm the worst person at admin, you know? So the parts that I enjoyed was interacting with people. I enjoyed that side. That's why I perceived a career in the recruitment field. didn't, I didn't perceive a career in administration because I'm crap at it, you know? So if I've got a tool that's going to do it for me, amazing. Save me the time, save me the hassle of doing it myself. So yeah.
Joel (25:31.373)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (25:44.278)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (25:51.576)
Well, no question that you are, you are a people person. can, I can vouch, vouch for that. Well, from one, from one scary enterprise to another.
Emi B (25:52.373)
I think, yeah.
You
Joel (26:03.17)
Let's talk about some news out of Google. Google CEO revealed this week that AI systems now generate more than a quarter. That's 25 % for those of you at home that don't know what a quarter is of new code for its products with human programmers overseeing the computer generated contributions. Does that mean current AI models are capable of generating flawless high quality code that developers can just insert and forget? Likely not. But does it mean fewer employees needed?
for said coding, what say you, Emmy? Quarter, 25 % of all new code out of Google now is automated. Should programmers be worried?
Emi B (26:45.153)
should they be worried? I would still say no, going back to the fact that it helps to increase productivity. It helps to speed up the process, but it won't replace a human. I don't think, you know, I don't think tech people need to be necessarily worried in the terms of like their roles going, but I do think that there will be an increasing need for people, for those, you know, people within the tech world to upskill themselves.
Joel (26:49.87)
Hmm.
Emi B (27:14.729)
You know, they're going to have to develop new skills to stay competitive in the marketplace. Roles are changing. So whether you're on product management, UX design, you know, even customer education, all of those roles are still going to have to need a higher level of understanding of AI functionalities, particularly because their clients and customers are becoming more savvy around AI as well.
Joel (27:32.248)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (27:44.044)
I'm less optimistic. know, Elon, well, it's how it's Halloween. I'm doom and gloom today. Sorry about that. Everybody. if so we, Elon started this whole trend, the year of efficiency. And so we had in the pandemic, money was free. people were getting STEMI checks and like the party was on and companies, particularly big tech companies over hired.
Emi B (27:45.889)
Are you okay today? You're not very optimistic today.
You
Joel (28:13.856)
If nothing else to keep them out of their competitors, you know, payrolls. And when things went south, it was like, okay, well we can't afford, or we don't need all these tech people. So we over hired, let's, let's lay them off. And then we had Elon by Twitter and said, Hey, we don't need all these programmers. They laid off 80%. Now they probably overdid it. They tried to get some people back, but I mean, Twitter is still Twitter. I mean, it's X, but it's still kind of works. It's, mean, it's.
Emi B (28:18.506)
Yeah.
Emi B (28:37.014)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (28:42.894)
It's fine. Right. I, I, well, advertisers, yes, but as a, as a technology, you don't hear about the fail. Well, you don't hear a lot about it crashing. and they are adding services. anyway, the point is investors, shareholders, businesses starting realizing like, we, if, if we can, if Elon can lay 80, 80 % of the work stuff off and they're still in business, they haven't closed the doors.
Emi B (28:42.955)
Does it though? Look how many customers they've lost. Yeah, no, I don't think it does work. Yeah.
Joel (29:09.218)
Like maybe we should look at doing that. like Facebook followed suit, some others, and then fast forward to a few months ago, the summer Amazon comes out and kind of says the quiet part out loud saying that they've saved $260 million in programming time with their new solution called Amazon queue. So Amazon queue, the homemade Amazon solution is doing a lot of the coding, doing a lot of the heavy lifting and saving a ton of money. So companies see this again, like,
Look at how much money we can save on the bottom line. And I believe Amazon will eventually productize Amazon queue and resell it to smaller companies and businesses kind of like they do with kind of like they do with AWS. So now you have Google come out and their earnings and Google's been challenged, right? They've been getting their ass kicked by open AI. People are saying is Google done? How are they going to make money on advertising, et cetera? And they come out and say, Hey, we've, we've saved a lot of money by programming 25 % of our code being generated by AI.
That means less programmers, right? I don't know how it can't. don't. It's.
Emi B (30:14.517)
I think roles would change. certain roles, yeah, I'm not going to lie yet. AI and what these companies are doing, it's going to eliminate some roles, but it's going to create a demand for other types of roles. this happens all the time. We look back 10, 15 years ago, roles that they used to have, we don't have anymore. But it doesn't mean that other roles haven't been generated in the long term.
Joel (30:23.854)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (30:36.386)
Yeah. Yeah. I think historically you're right. And I think, you know, when, when the, when the car came along and the horse and buggy went away and, it, but that, that took, that took decades to happen. Right. But with AI, we're seeing change so quickly. Government like, are we prepared for this? And I'm not sure that we are, but I, but I do know like in the short term, these big companies are saying, Hey, we can use technology to do a lot of the work that we're doing, which means fewer people.
Emi B (30:44.596)
Exactly.
Emi B (30:50.646)
It's speed. Yeah.
Joel (31:04.224)
And as big companies go, little companies and mid tier companies start following suit. If these companies start productizing like Amazon queue, and you can plug it into your organization and have less programmers and developers. And by the way, they're, they're going to be fewer customer service people. People are going after salespeople. Now marketers are going to be automated and recruiting as we see in our business, being automated. I, I think this should scare a lot of recruiters because we're not talking about LinkedIn.
Emi B (31:04.651)
Yeah.
Joel (31:33.624)
doing recruiting, we can both agree like, yeah, if you take away scheduling and job posting and like the little menial stuff, like we can actually get down to the work of recruiting. But if there are fewer people in a company, there's fewer people to recruit. So you need fewer recruiters because you have fewer people, right? So ultimately, I don't know how this ends optimistically or positively in the near future. You seem to disagree.
Emi B (31:53.697)
Well, think it also, yeah, I agree with some points and I disagree with other points. I think you need to think about the role of a modern day recruiter. A modern day recruiter isn't just someone who posts a job on a job board and wait for CVs to come in. They do a lot more now. The role has evolved over the years. recruiters are getting involved with workforce planning, which is maybe not something they did before. Recruiters are getting involved in anticipating the hiring needs.
from the workforce planning, understanding the marketplace to build pipelines for maybe those niche new roles that will come, that will merge as a result of, know, companies automating. Recruiters are getting involved in employee branding and employer marketing. That wasn't the case before. So all of those things are now under the umbrella of a modern day, you know, TA professional. So do they need to be worried about the fact that, okay, my
Joel (32:31.8)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (32:53.119)
you know, perhaps technology is actually taking over, you know, identifying candidates. No, because their time, as I said before, is more focused on selling that company brand, building the company brand, helping to retain people with the organization. And maybe what will happen is that that title of talent acquisition that we have now, maybe the acquisition part would actually disappear, you know, in the next five years, and they're just going to be talent.
Joel (32:56.77)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (33:17.08)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (33:20.459)
professionals looking after acquisition and the management side. So that's our kind of example. say that roles will evolve. New roles will emerge because of the way the world is moving now because of the emergence of AI.
Joel (33:32.91)
I love it. love it. You're you're ray of sunshine on a Halloween day. And by the way, I will say maybe you can get done in 35, 40 hours as opposed to 45, 50, 55 hours, which is what I hear a lot of recruiters saying that they're so in gray shaded and busy work, maybe a little less time, more strategic thinking. Maybe that's a good thing for everybody. All right. I love it. I love it.
Emi B (33:36.8)
Hahaha!
Emi B (33:48.169)
Exactly. Yeah.
Emi B (33:57.961)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that's only going to benefit organizations in the long run.
Joel (34:03.958)
I love it. That's so money. I love it. All right. Let's take a quick break and we'll talk about hiring trends for 2025.
Emi B (34:11.553)
Cool.
Joel (34:16.333)
All right, Amy, let's talk about some trends from a new analysis of 400 TA professionals done by Korn Ferry in 2025. Talent acquisition will face the challenge of integrating AI while preserving human connection with 67 % seeing AI's role in talent strategies, but concerns about depersonalization and bias. Hybrid work models are pervasive, yet finding office going candidates is
tough while skills based hiring is valued. It's full adoption is currently lagging culture and employer value propositions are critical emphasizing authenticity and employer promises also very important. Emmy, what in the corn fairy report caught your attention the most?
Emi B (35:01.983)
Well, obviously AI, like I said before, everyone's talking about AI. Everyone's like kind of optimistic about AI, how it's going to increase their productivity, but they're still concerned because it's still very new that people can't get their head around it. And I suppose one of the things that caught my eye in this particular area, they said that in the report that the AI technology that we have at the moment can't handle all.
of the talent acquisition strategy needs, particularly the high level ones. So I'll give you an example. Can AI help us to accurately identify talent gaps? Maybe not yet. Can AI interpret verbal cues when interviewing candidates? No, definitely not. You definitely shouldn't rely on technology for that side of things. that stood out to me. And I get why people should be worried and they should be worried because you do need to...
use AI responsibly, you know, and as you, as long as you use it responsibly, absolutely fine. No issues at all. But like I said, it means that people are going to have to upskill themselves. It means that the people are going to have to understand the potential implications of AI if they don't use it responsibly, you know, because it will lead to things like bias if they, if they're not careful. So that's my opinion from the kind of the AI side of things.
Joel (36:18.84)
Yep. Yep.
Joel (36:24.16)
Okay. Okay. Understood. All right. So, so my takeaways, I'll give you three things, three highlights from, the survey that, that stood out to me. Number one, we're very concerned about AI, compromising the human touch in recruiting. and I will say, you reap what you sow, for, for decades since the internet came about, the black hole has been pervasive.
Emi B (36:30.805)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (36:41.013)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (36:53.368)
candidates have applied with no response. and automation actually makes the communication more human. A lot of people don't know they're talking to a chat bot. They don't know it's a, they really think it is Olivia or whoever they're talking to. And they like that better than hearing nothing. So when we were superhuman, when we were only human, nobody heard shit. We went automation and
Emi B (37:03.647)
Exactly.
Emi B (37:10.368)
Yeah.
Emi B (37:14.442)
Yeah.
Joel (37:21.55)
candidates started hearing stuff. had conversations and updates and like scheduling, like they like that better than nothing. And now, and now we're like, wait a minute. Don't take the human out of it. Like you took out the human when it was all human. So now you want to be human now. Okay. So, so to me, it's like, you have no one to blame, about, about the fear of this when you could have been human all along, but you aren't now, hopefully there'll be deeper conversations, but initially like
Emi B (37:29.088)
Yeah.
Emi B (37:42.017)
Face off.
Emi B (37:46.058)
Yeah.
Joel (37:50.734)
Candidates like just hearing shit. They just like engagement. They don't necessarily know that it's a robot or a computer program that they're talking to. So if you're scared about, yeah, if you're scared about losing the human thing, like you only have yourself to blame for that because for years and years, you ignored candidates and now it's coming to bite shit in the ass. number two thing that stood out to me, people really, really don't want to go back to the office. 64 % are like six, like 64, they can't convince.
Emi B (37:58.059)
And that's the beauty of it now, yeah.
Emi B (38:15.305)
Nah, absolutely not.
Joel (38:19.65)
people to come. Even hybrid is like, nah, not into that. So if the best of the best candidates are saying, I don't want to come to work. If you're not adjusting, adapting to that, you're, you're screwed. You're at a competitive disadvantage. And I know like hybrid to me feels like half pregnant. Like you, you're either, you're either remote or you're not like remote remote is
We're, we're, we're headquartered in Chicago, but I live in Burlington, Vermont, and I, that's that, and I can do my job from there. Hybrid means you're still where you are just a few amount of times. So I have a hard time with the hybrid thing. And I feel like that's just sort of back to the office light, you know, it's not quite office enough, but you're still in the office. So clearly, but the, the, writing on the wall is people don't want to come back to work. They don't want, they don't even want to,
Emi B (38:50.645)
Yeah.
Joel (39:15.958)
interview with a company that doesn't have remote work. The solutions need to get better. engaging people when they're at home, like if you're in that technology, if you're in that space, get really good at what you do because the future is at home, like work from home and how to best do that. So that stood out to me. the third thing that stood out to me really, was that skills based hiring may be in trouble.
Emi B (39:37.12)
Yeah.
Joel (39:45.39)
We've talked a lot about skills-based, well, because only 17 % of employers plan to switch to skills-based hiring. So we've heard a lot about skills-based.
Emi B (39:46.849)
Really? What do to that?
Emi B (39:57.345)
Do you think people understand it though?
Joel (40:01.558)
Yes. Kind of like they understand nuclear fission. Like I understand it, but I'm not going to do it. I, keep, most people are lazy. Most people like shorthand. They like, they like making decisions where I'm not going to get fired. Right. I bank it chase or wealth, like, cause I know it's not going to go out of business. I, I buy indeed because well, I'm not going to get fired for
Emi B (40:09.694)
Yeah.
Joel (40:31.15)
spending money with Indeed or LinkedIn, or I buy Microsoft because I'm not going to get fired for that decision. With recruiting, I'm not going to get fired for hiring someone who went to Penn or Northwestern or Oxford in your case, whatever, plug in Cambridge, whatever those schools are. So like, it sounds really good to say.
Emi B (40:54.913)
But you will get fired. See, this is why I challenge you. You can get fired for hiring someone who might have the great educational background, but they can't apply it in a real world. All that education in the world means nothing.
Joel (41:06.83)
Are my risks greater hiring a Northwestern grad that can't do the job or someone that has no experience or no credential, whatever that credential is, and they can't do the job? Which one is worse for me as a recruiter?
Emi B (41:27.273)
It's better to look, go for the skills. Yeah. Yeah.
Joel (41:27.872)
No skit are like no credential and doesn't do the job. So at least I'm, managing my risk in a short, like we're just a shorthand world. We, we go to that LinkedIn profile. Where did you work? Where did you go to school? We don't want to do the hard work of like, what did you actually do? We just want like a quick, I know that brand. I've heard of that. Like that gives them some status to me. So, so I think, I think that the human nature of this is creeping in.
Emi B (41:53.567)
Yeah!
Joel (41:58.13)
and skills-based hiring, it feels like it's in trouble. I mean, that's less than 20 % of employers plan to switch to it.
Emi B (42:06.145)
I see, I would challenge that because although, okay, skills-based hiring, I suppose the terminology has been more and more into conversations in the last couple of years, but it's what recruiters do day in, day out. Their job is to educate hiring managers and interviewers to see beyond the biases of a great university or a great company. don't get me wrong, going to a great university, I went to a great university myself, I'm so glad.
Joel (42:12.27)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (42:30.446)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (42:35.147)
that went to that university, but that what I learned after three years didn't actually help me to be successful in my role. know, it's this actual practical skills that's actually helped me to succeed in my role. And I think recruiters, like I said, despite not having a terminology skills-based recruiting, recruiters have been doing that. Recruiters interview people, they check people's competencies. They're asking the questions, they're asking questions which...
Joel (42:42.414)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (43:01.377)
unveil whether or not people have the skills, the knowledge, abilities to actually succeed in a particular role. And they have been advising hiring managers on look beyond the job title, look beyond the university, look beyond the company they work at and look at what they've achieved in that role. That is skills-based hiring. So I think it's just the fact that people are understanding what that means now, now it has an actual name.
Joel (43:20.471)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (43:28.77)
Yeah.
Emi B (43:29.118)
And it's going to be more more important in an environment where there may not be as many candidates around because people are worried about staying in their jobs because of how uncertain some job markets are. So you're going to have to think more creatively. You're going to have to look at those transferable skills.
Joel (43:46.348)
Yeah. You have way more faith in human beings than I do. just, and, and you, you've already done some sugar. Obviously I need to catch up here. the, the time zone is, is messing with me on this one, but yeah, I just, you know, my S my son is 18 and getting ready to go to college. And I sort of gave him my two cents. And I said, look, unless you know exactly what you want to do,
Emi B (43:49.537)
I do! I'm in a good mood today. Yeah, yeah, honestly, Halloween is good for me.
Emi B (44:07.606)
Yeah.
Joel (44:15.342)
get the largest brand name in a state because it's a lot cheaper in state than you possibly can because like it or not, that credential, that brand is going to follow you for the rest of your life. And if it's some obscure liberal arts, small college in Indiana that no one knows, that's not going to do you much good in the big scheme of things. Go to somewhere.
Emi B (44:18.859)
Yeah. Yeah.
Emi B (44:38.515)
in the long run, no? Like in 10 years time when they've been working. Yeah. Okay. Perhaps in the short term, yes. Yeah.
Joel (44:41.326)
Well, he, he, he, he, he's 18. He can't think about the long-term. His, his goal should be, his goal should, his goal should be put as many big brands on your LinkedIn profile as you possibly can. So my next bit of advice would be try to intern at the biggest brand you can possibly get into because the next decision will be who hires you. And at that entry level job, it's like, okay, who has the credentials that I can feel safe about hiring this person, but.
I appreciate your optimism. appreciate your optimism. mean, by yeah, I mean, and all of it is just, it's necessity. If we don't have enough people, we have to hire for skill, and not, know, credential or where they went to school or where they've worked before. So this is a, a lot of this is a pendulum where the economy is really tight. Like we're to hire skills when there are plenty of job seekers, we're not going to hire for skills so much. And I think that pendulum.
Emi B (45:12.609)
I will challenge you in this one.
Emi B (45:26.273)
I want to know that you can actually do the job.
Joel (45:36.75)
will continue to swing, but very, very interesting. love it. All right. Let's talk about young people. Get off my lawn. Young people were in the news this week. A UKG survey said 83 % report feeling burned out. and 36 % of Gen Z say that they would also quit a job that negatively affects their physical or mental wellbeing.
And this is in the backdrop of an OnlyFans model announcing this week that she's retiring at 28 after earning $67 million after being on OnlyFans for three years. Emmy, you're young or younger than me. Help me out here. What's going on with the Utes?
Emi B (46:15.371)
so jealous.
Emi B (46:22.101)
I am.
Emi B (46:27.553)
I'm only joking. Thank you for saying that I'm young. If I'm looking at Gen Z, Gen Z is 18 to 27 year olds. Hopefully for anyone watching online, do look like an 18 to 27 year old. But what is happening? think if I compare the Gen Z generation to my generation, I think there is a clear difference in mindset. When I was growing up and I still have this mindset of myself, it's a hustle culture.
you want to get ahead. So what do do? You work hard, you put in hours, you, you know, you, if you have to work evenings, you work evenings. If you have to wake up early, you work, you know, wake up early. That is, that is our generation. You know, this is what we grew up with because we were told if you work hard, if you put in hours, you will succeed. You will go move up the career ladder. But I was watching TikTok, you know, kind of not, not so long ago and I was seeing
this thing about soft life and I was like, know, what's soft life? know, the younger generation, that's not, that's not their priority. Their priority is not to work themselves into the ground. Yeah, yeah, they want to have a great job, but not at the expense of their health, not at the expense of their mental wellbeing. That's just not what's, you know, in the main, that's not what concerns them, you know? So organizations need to recognize this.
Joel (47:41.72)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (47:48.526)
and start appealing to that, you know, that alternative mindset that we have now.
Joel (47:53.07)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Joel (47:59.384)
So a few things here. is kids, young people today have more options than have ever been available. When my parents went to school, was like, you can be a teacher, a doctor, a lawyer, you can be in the military. Like there might've been five things that you can do. And so your worldview is shrunken in that I have to do.
Emi B (48:14.505)
lawyer, accountant.
Joel (48:25.646)
this job and I'm going do it for a long time. And at the time companies maybe took care of you. And then when we came up, middle-aged people now, more things became available. Like the internet created a whole new array of opportunities, technology, globalization, you know, more, the world opened up more to us as we went through and young people today.
Emi B (48:47.925)
Yeah.
Joel (48:49.954)
You talk about options, man. Holy shit. Like if you just want to drive an Uber and deliver food and hang out at a, in your studio apartment, like you can do that. and I think a lot more, a lot more people are like, look, it's if you like, I can go down the street and take this and get a new job. Like they're just so much more. And then, and then in the backdrop of that, you've had young people, if they don't remember the
Emi B (49:00.309)
You could be an influencer.
Joel (49:15.554)
The great recession, they, they hear stories about it. They remember their parents. They have stories of people that lost their home, have homes for closed, for closed on. And then you had the pandemic when it was like the world's ending. I'm so scared. I'm like scared shitless. the, the worldview has been like, okay, there's more to work more to life than work. My parents got screwed by it. They're like their parents and I don't, that's not going to happen to me. So a combination of.
Emi B (49:18.998)
Yeah.
Emi B (49:30.389)
Yeah.
Emi B (49:39.478)
Yeah.
Joel (49:45.312)
I have a lot more in the options category than any other generation before it. And I have the experience of, and the storytelling of like work, like companies will fuck you. Like companies don't give a shit. They don't, they're not loyal to you. should I be loyal, loyal to them? And I think this, this is all coming to roost with, with young people. I mean, I see surveys that the number of young people who want to be influencers as a job is astounding.
Emi B (50:01.579)
I don't think that's true.
Joel (50:14.083)
like it is a career goal. I think there's yeah, go ahead.
Emi B (50:14.849)
Joel, yeah, I mean, I'll tell you a story. I think when was this last year? I think it was. did, I went to a local school with my friend who also works in HR and what we were doing, it was like a careers day. So we'll speak into teenagers. So, you know, 13 to 18 year olds about different professions. So, you know, we'll there talk about HR. Hey, you know, you can get into recruitment or can just as generally HR and then we'll, you know,
you know, not surprisingly, a lot of them weren't really interested. It wasn't a life passion until I have a job in HR. So, you know, kind of switched it up a bit and said, look, tell me what do you want to do? What interests you? What careers? And I'm not going to lie, we were there for six hours. The majority of the kids were telling us they wanted to be an influencer, which was shocking for us because I just thought this is, yeah, I just thought it's something I read it like that was in the news. I said, no, no, no, people are telling us firsthand.
Joel (50:46.062)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (51:10.431)
That is what they want to do. Why work nine hours, 10 hours, 12 hours a day when you can go online like this OnlyFans girl, you know, have lots of people like kind of admiring your photos, paying money for your photos, working a couple of hours a day. What, she's, what's she, she's finishing at 28, retiring, a millionaire. I've been working for donkey's years. Yeah, you know, why wouldn't I take that life?
Joel (51:21.262)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (51:29.166)
$67 million. Yeah.
Joel (51:35.694)
But you got to agree this isn't good for the future of humanity, right? The desire to be an influencer as a career, that can't be good, can it? And as a woman, let's say, let's look, the people making money in OnlyFans by and large are women. Do you think that's, that's good for women? Are we going to look back and go, man, OnlyFans was empowering and women got rich and like, yes. Or are we going to go back and go, yeah, we made some money, but that was a bad choice. Like, where are you on, on that longterm?
Emi B (51:45.919)
Depends what, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No.
Emi B (51:57.93)
Yeah.
Emi B (52:02.785)
I think there's pros and cons. think you need to understand, people need to understand what they mean by an influencer. You can be an influencer like this OnlyFans girl, take your clothes off, have people pay money for you, but you can also be an influencer within the professional world. People who talk...
Joel (52:17.878)
I'm just talking about getting naked. I'm talking about OnlyFans, sexual stuff. Do you think that's a long-term positive for society?
Emi B (52:21.524)
Yeah.
Emi B (52:26.209)
For me personally, no, because I think that it's going to create problems down the line. I think people are going to be more conscious about their bodies rather than who they are as an individual. I think it opens up the door for hate online and people to start criticizing people online. So I think those are the things that obviously you need to be wary of.
Joel (52:38.659)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (52:44.398)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (52:51.393)
But then on the flip side, and like I said, would I take off my clothes in public? No, absolutely not. For one, my mom will absolutely kill me. Even at my age, I'm still scared of my mom. So definitely not. But on the other hand, you've got a woman who is young, who understands what she's doing, who's taking control of her life, who's an entrepreneur, and she's retiring at 28. She's doing a lot more than maybe other people do. Maybe she's savvy. Maybe she understands exactly what's going on. So it's a balance.
Joel (53:09.602)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (53:20.779)
For me personally, no, but I understand the long-term implications of doing something like that.
Joel (53:27.47)
Let's take a quick break and talk about men. Let's give them some attention.
Emi B (53:32.426)
Yay!
Joel (53:35.822)
All right. More doom and gloom, Emmy. I'm sorry. I got to do it. prime age men, those are guys 25 to 54 are increasingly leaving the workforce with 10.5 % or 6.8 million men in the U S not working or job seeking as of August of this year compared with just 2.5 % in 1954. So 2.5 % to 10.5%.
Emi B (53:56.885)
Hmm.
Joel (54:03.054)
This trend linked to lower educational attainment reflects economic shifts like job losses and manufacturing due to technology and globalization. Emmy, what's your take on what's going on with med?
Emi B (54:16.277)
What is going on with men? think, you know, I think again, it goes back to the shift in what people are now looking for. You know, it's not the, they're not necessarily looking for that, you know, I'm going to join a company, I'm going to be there for the next 25 years of my life. That is not the mindset of people now. And I think, like I said before, companies need to understand this and they need to understand it quickly because otherwise they're going to find it hard to retain.
you know, or attract people within certain industries. And particularly if you're talking about people who don't have, you know, college, you know, college degrees, for example, college qualifications, industries like, you know, construction, manufacturing, for example, with, you know, which in the main hire people with vocational backgrounds, they are, they are going to struggle. So they have to, they have to look at other ways to retain people, they have to.
think of how they're gonna upskill people. They're gonna have to think of non-traditional pathways to attract people within the organization in order to survive, basically.
Joel (55:21.358)
Yeah, this issue really upsets me, really scares me a little bit.
Emi B (55:26.721)
Mm.
Joel (55:28.842)
Okay, I'm going to go primitive on you. I got, I got, think I'm going this journey with me.
Emi B (55:31.969)
Okay.
Emi B (55:35.859)
You
Joel (55:38.038)
human beings used to live about 30 years. obviously we live longer now, but lot of the, makeup of what that person was, that human being is still in us. And as I can speak, I can speak to this cause I was a young man once, sex, sex and having sex was the number one driver as a young man. And I'm not, I'm not unique.
Emi B (55:56.075)
See you
Emi B (56:07.099)
Yeah
Joel (56:07.47)
Any, any guy who's honest when they were, when they were 17, that was, trust me, in, in on that was on the front burner. Okay. And we looked around really early and we figured out, okay, who are most likely to get girls? And it was the athlete. so a lot of boys, me included, maybe I enjoyed it, but you know, part of it was like, well, girls like,
Emi B (56:16.257)
Number one priority.
Joel (56:36.428)
sport, like guys who play sports. I can remember specifically, I was in band and I played basketball. I liked both fairly equally. liked basketball more, but my music teacher said, like, you need to decide band or basketball. my, at 13 years old, it was like, which is going to get a girlfriend basketball or saxophone. now can.
Emi B (56:42.367)
Yeah? Okay.
Emi B (57:01.451)
Oscar vote. Yeah.
Joel (57:04.6)
Kenny G wasn't around yet. might've changed my mind, but, but it was, I picked the thing that I thought would be more amenable or more, more attractive to a female, female. So when boys are in high school, they start thinking about, well, what's going to get a girl. And part of it is like, well, you need a good job. You need to make money. You got to have these things. If you want to like be marketable.
Emi B (57:27.094)
Yeah.
Joel (57:33.902)
As an adult and find a woman and a wife like this, this is my brain at 18. Okay. In the eighties. And so a lot, think a lot of men back then went to school because well, if I want to have sex, like their sex at college, that's a good thing. And then you get a job and their sex after that. So, it's all about procreating and keeping the human species. Like I'm not, I don't think I'm breaking any, any barriers here with this, but, but so, so now if you, if you fast forward to the world today,
Emi B (57:56.289)
That is so different to women, aren't they?
Joel (58:03.83)
And by the way, they're talking about education. Like there's been dumb people forever and there hasn't been this like there hasn't been these issues. I, like, I look at this as okay, if I'm right now, we have spent the last five decades telling people that if you're a plumber, construction worker, drive a truck, whatever, like you're a loser. So there's like,
Emi B (58:11.413)
Yeah.
Joel (58:29.422)
College isn't for everybody. A lot of people can't even get into college. we've basically said we've created this stigma where if you're not a knowledge worker, you're driving a truck, like you're a loser. So, okay, if I'm a loser, there's no sex. So like if I'm in high school, I'm like, why would I want to be that when everyone thinks it's a loser? And then I'm in a dating environment now where Tinder and studies have come out that 20 % of the men are getting 80 % of the attention.
from the women on Tinder. So if I'm an attractive dude, something I don't know anything about, but what I've read, if you're attractive dude, you're getting a lot more action on Tinder and other dating apps than 80 % of the other men. So if I'm on these dating apps and no one's paying attention to me, okay, so I'm in a position where the job I would get, I'm a loser, I'm on dating apps, no one's swiping right, I'm a loser.
Emi B (59:14.784)
Okay.
Joel (59:28.342)
Why, why, why work? If there's no, if there's no promise of a life and a mate and attraction and that whole journey that men and women take with each other and I don't want to alleviate homosexuals, I'm being very general here. But if I'm a man and I can't, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not a PHP program or I'm not like the high level guy. Okay. So this, this thing is a loser. Women don't like me. Why give a shit?
Emi B (59:41.579)
Yeah.
Joel (59:56.514)
I'll drive an Uber, I'll do some odd jobs. So I think, I think it goes, it all goes back to like these things have happened and we shouldn't be surprised that men are saying, fuck it, fuck it. Because I can't do the thing that genetically and like evolutionarily I can do easily. And I think that is coming to roost with people just dudes just checking out of the workforce. And by the way,
Internet porn. Why go through a three hour date and spend a bunch of money on food when I can just, you know, get a bottle of Jurgens and go to Pornhub and have a good time and then go back to go back to Xbox. Like, so these choices and as we get VR and robo girlfriends and by the way, women are getting much more attention on social media. So they're getting that dopamine hit somewhere else where it's just the sexes are dividing. And I think men as a reaction are saying like, I'm just, I'm fucking out. done.
Emi B (01:00:33.075)
Yeah.
Emi B (01:00:52.865)
I think it's an interesting take. Yeah, no, yeah, massively. I think it's an interesting take. And to be honest, I was wondering where you were going with that. And obviously I'm not a male. I'll never profess to truly understand what goes on in a man's mind. I wish I did, because if not, my love life would be a lot better. no, no, no, no, no, definitely not. What would I say? Is a male attitude
Joel (01:00:53.088)
Off my soapbox.
Joel (01:01:10.798)
Young men wanting sex is not a revelation for you, right? Okay.
Emi B (01:01:22.209)
changing? Yes. I mean, if you look at the things like, you know, the people who've come into the world like Andrew Tate, you know, if I look at the amount of people who follow Andrew Tate, believe that what this the rubbish that comes out of his mouth is actually something to believe. His misogynist, you know, sexist views are something to be admired. There are surprisingly, and it very surprising for me, more and more people who actually believe it and adopt that kind of attitude. So
Is that translating into the workplace? Possibly. Is it also because of the younger generation thinking that, they don't like, you know, like we said before, they don't necessarily want to be in the workplace working nine hours a day. They want to find an alternative way to find income that probably has a, you know, has an impact as well. So I think there's a number of different factors. I don't think it's kind of you can boil it down to one as to why young males are dropping out of the workplace.
Joel (01:01:59.534)
Mm-hmm.
Emi B (01:02:19.765)
But I think it's something that as a society, it is really important to address now because it's becoming more and more of a problem. More and more males are feeling disengaged and it's resulting in things like this. It's resulting in them dropping out of the workplace. It's resulting in them not feeling part of society. It's resulting in male suicide rates, for example, increasing because, like I said, it's a sad situation.
Joel (01:02:45.176)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (01:02:50.286)
Yeah. And I don't have all the answers and this isn't necessarily my lane. And, but I do think my, my take on it has some relevance. You know, the, the, Andrew Tate and look, men are angry. I mean, at the top of the show, I said, this is largely like, who's going to go out and vote the angry men or the scared women. And that's kind of what, at least in America we've divided into. And when you're, when you're an angry male,
Emi B (01:03:01.739)
Yeah.
Joel (01:03:13.966)
you listen to people who sort of justify your feelings and, blaming women or women are the reason or women's like, that's a reaction that we're seeing. people like Tater are, are, you know, running with that. by the way, by the way, the world is not a better place with a lot of lonely angry men. so like,
Emi B (01:03:29.174)
yeah. And people are listening, unfortunately.
Joel (01:03:37.878)
Not to get too dark, but those are the people that strap bombs to their chest. And those are the people that like pick up a gun and do stupid shit. like to your point, like it would, it would be hoover us to try to figure some of this shit out or make it better. I don't have the answers, but, but yeah, shit's shit's kind of fucked up. let's get to some, dad jokes, shall we? Well, that lighten the mood a little bit before we, before we.
Emi B (01:03:39.488)
Yeah.
Emi B (01:03:51.135)
Yeah.
Emi B (01:03:59.745)
Okay, I've heard your dad jokes. I'm not, okay, go for it.
Joel (01:04:07.798)
these are good. are Halloween inspired. Ready? Okay. How do you know if a vampire is sick?
Emi B (01:04:11.273)
Okay, okay, okay, hit me with it. Yeah.
Emi B (01:04:19.735)
No idea.
Joel (01:04:20.63)
He's, he's coffin. He's coffin. Get it? Coffin. All right. Why, why, why won't, why won't monsters eat ghosts? Why won't monsters eat ghosts?
Emi B (01:04:24.11)
God, God, no, no, no, no.
Emi B (01:04:32.033)
Is there Guli? Goulash? No, I don't know.
Joel (01:04:37.356)
because they always taste like sheet. Get it? Sheet. Go shit. All right. We're, we're going to end it on a good one. Here we go. what, what do, what do witches cook for dinner for on Halloween? What do witches cook on dinner for Halloween? Ooh, that's, that's not too bad, but, no, it's, it's, it's POS pasta, a Fredo pasta, a Fredo.
Emi B (01:04:41.439)
That is rubbish. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, come on, come on. Third time lucky.
Emi B (01:04:53.675)
Goulash. Goulash? Yeah, yeah, no.
Emi B (01:05:03.379)
No, that's that's shit. Where did you get the... No, no. Is this a track GPT joke? It's like...
Joel (01:05:12.234)
you can Google all kinds of dad jokes and I know because I do it all the time. Emmy, thanks for joining the show. For anyone who wants to connect with you, where would you send them?
Emi B (01:05:16.619)
Yeah
Emi B (01:05:20.848)
You can go onto LinkedIn, that's where you'll find me. So M-E-E-M-I, Beredigo. So B-E-R-E-D-U-G-O. Not my full government name. Yeah.
Joel (01:05:32.028)
There you go, there you go. Happy Halloween and I wanna hear a good we out from you. We out!
Emi B (01:05:38.387)
Did I miss my key? Can we do it again? we out. Yes
Joel (01:05:39.618)
No, do it now!
Emi B (01:05:44.735)
Why do I never get this right?
Emi B (01:05:53.921)
Honestly, one day, how many times do I listen and get it wrong?
Joel (01:05:54.092)
One of these days you will get the intro and the outro right until then.
Joel (01:06:02.862)
See ya, Amy.
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