In this episode of the Chad and Cheese Podcast, the boys discuss various topics related to the recruiting industry in Europe and beyond, including recent news about Google and StepStone, shout outs to industry players, and a deep dive into the dynamics of European media and classifieds businesses. They also analyze legal battles involving JobIndex and Google, and engage in a 'Buy or Sell' segment featuring startups like SkillVue, Jobbilla, and Flowit, providing insights into their potential in the market.
Hot Takes
Media and classifieds businesses are undergoing major transformations with new ownership structures.
Legal battles, such as Job Index vs. Google, reflect the complexities of the digital job market.
SkillView aims to address the skills gap with innovative AI solutions.
Jobbilla's approach to recruitment lacks unique offerings in a competitive market.
Flowit focuses on employee retention through real-time feedback, but raises concerns about the role of managers.
The hosts emphasize the need for human interaction in employee engagement strategies.
Investments in startups reflect the growing importance of technology in recruitment.
The podcast encourages listeners to stay informed and engaged with industry developments.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION (Blame errors on bots)
Joel (00:33.27)
Three guys who would rather be jamming out to Kibu right about now. You are listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast Does Europe. I'm your co -host, Joel Wildfires and Floods Cheeseman.
Chad (00:43.994)
This is Chad, and welcome to all things Scottish. Sowash.
Lieven (00:48.2)
And I'm leaving, get that page row away from me, van Nivenhuisen.
Joel (00:52.59)
And on this episode, Google wins, StepStone splits, and buy or sell. Let's do this.
Joel (01:03.928)
What's up, gents? What's up?
Chad (01:03.942)
Lieven's back! Guy's been busy! Guy's been busy!
Joel (01:10.315)
Chad leaves Europe for a few weeks and it's wildfires and floods everywhere. You need to get back as soon as possible to save the continent, Chad.
Lieven (01:10.572)
I was, I was.
Lieven (01:15.161)
You
Chad (01:19.024)
Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry Portugal. I'll be back soon. Yes. No watching that.
Joel (01:22.186)
Is your home okay? There are, there are fires in Portugal. is, is the estate all right? Okay. Good. The estate, the, the help, the help is out in the front yard with hoses keeping the fires away. That's good.
Chad (01:25.658)
Yeah. The estate, yeah. More on the northern side, but yes, I mean, it's.
Lieven (01:29.604)
The mansion.
Chad (01:36.08)
the hell?
Lieven (01:37.058)
And is the sky like dark with the clouds from the... Or not totally.
Joel (01:43.063)
It looks bad.
Chad (01:43.916)
I have no clue. had no clue in the Algarve. As a matter of fact, I should actually, text Jasper Sponjart because he's at my place now. he's been there for, like a week and a half. Nah, they're, they're good down there. They're good down there.
Lieven (01:46.286)
Alright.
Joel (01:51.128)
Mm -hmm.
Lieven (01:53.383)
he's so fucked.
Okay, but you know, a few months probably ago we had wildfires in Canada and at a certain point in Belgium, which is the other way of the world, the sky was like misty because of the clouds, the fires from Canada and the atmosphere. So we didn't have any sun left. So now in Portugal it must be... Yeah, we still blame them. We don't have a few sunny days and then they spoil it.
Chad (02:11.376)
Yeah.
Joel (02:17.912)
Blame Canada. Blame Canada. Always blaming Canada.
Chad (02:22.534)
Yeah.
Chad (02:28.112)
Plenty of blame to go around when it comes to global warming, ecological, whatever we want to call it today.
Lieven (02:28.602)
Alright.
Joel (02:33.944)
Cats and dogs living together. Mass hysteria. Let's get the shout out, shall we?
Chad (02:39.482)
Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and go first because we just got back from Wreckfest and Wreckfest USA was like bringing Scotland to America for God's sakes. Our, our favorite Scott.
Joel (02:47.82)
my
Chad (02:54.172)
Our favorite Scott, Steven McGrath was in Nashville and so were Nikki Patterson and Alan McFadden. Hell, I even put on a killed on Friday. So it's fitting that my shout out goes to our friends from Scotland, Willow. In a move straight out of a modern day anti -sequel, the Scottish founded recruit tech platform Willow just secured 2 .4 million pounds in funding, courtesy of none other, none other.
Joel (03:08.845)
Mm.
Chad (03:22.338)
none other than Daddy Warbucks himself, aka meme cast tycoon Peter Bauer. With Bauer's backing, Willow is gearing up for global domination aiming to bring its video interviewing tech to every corner of the world. Clearly, there's nothing like a tech millionaire sprinkling some cash to make a good story even better. Shout out to a company I actually gave the guns to on Firing Squad, our friends over at Willow.
Joel (03:51.042)
Got it!
Joel (03:56.718)
All right, from one part of the UK to the other, my shout out goes to ETAs. No, that's not estimated time of arrival, kids. That's the British government's new electronic travel authorization system for its international visitors, excluding, of course, Britain and Ireland. The system requires travelers to obtain permission and pay a fee of approximately $13 before visiting the UK. That's at least one pint in downtown London, everybody. The ETA,
linked to travelers passports, aims to streamline security checks and prevent misuse of the immigration system. Let's be honest, it's to fill the accounts of government officials with money. By my math, about a half a billion dollars or so will be generated by this. It won't be in full effect until April of 2025. Shout out to the new ETA in the UK.
Chad (04:39.29)
Yes. Yes.
Chad (04:56.58)
Yeah, I mean, going from anywhere else in Europe to the UK just fucking sucks going through passport control. I can almost guarantee you it's not going to get any better. Yeah. This is, this is, this is a tariff.
Joel (04:56.76)
Thanks a lot for taking all my money, Britton.
Joel (05:08.621)
Nah.
Joel (05:11.95)
$13 it's a toll. It's like a toll. Okay, my car passes. Yeah at some point they'll connect it to your face It'll just take it off your credit card. Yeah Be the cash register ringing. All right leaving what you got man
Lieven (05:13.591)
It's a toilet. It's sort of like, itch. My car passes. At some point they'll connect it to your face, and it'll just take it off your front car.
Chad (05:14.683)
Yeah.
Chad (05:21.424)
That's next. That's Leave it.
Lieven (05:26.373)
13 euros or nothing but I'm still going to the staffing industry analyst conference in London in December. So ETA will get my money I'm afraid. Okay what do I got? do I got? All right we have a shout out to one of our listeners Mark Dres who pointed out that Joel doesn't know the difference between Germany and the Netherlands and I think I
Chad (05:47.206)
Ha
Lieven (05:53.058)
It was needed to be pointed out. So thank you, Mark, for pointing out the obvious.
Chad (05:58.756)
I like how you took blame for this, Levin, because you are our European Sherpa and, know, Joel should know these things.
Lieven (06:01.26)
I know.
Yeah, I know, I know. I'm so sorry, Joel, that I let you down. So there is a big difference. They speak sort of the same language. They look sort of the same, but...
Joel (06:13.486)
Keep it, from what I understand, Chad was on that interview too. He could have said, whoa, whoa, okay, just before we move on, and he did. Yeah, let's, as you should, look, I challenge anyone to do 1 ,500 some episodes of a podcast and not screw up on a regular basis. yeah, look, look, we're not, we're.
Chad (06:20.046)
No, I let stuff go. I know you like to redirect blame, but just own up to it, Cheeseman. Own up to it.
Lieven (06:29.656)
hundred some episodes.
Chad (06:32.57)
Waaah, waaah, waaah, waaah. Where's the baby at? Where's the baby sound effect? Something like crying, bathing sound effect. Thanks Mark.
Lieven (06:34.551)
Hmm.
Joel (06:39.746)
We're not curing cancer here, kids on the podcast. Look, we're here to have fun, entertain. Yeah. Everybody get a good laugh. Get a good, get a good chuckle. Yeah. Yeah. The American doesn't know countries in Europe.
Lieven (06:40.472)
We're not curing cancer for kids on the podcast. We're here to have fun, entertain, yeah. Everybody get a good laugh, get a good show.
difference between the Netherlands and Germany.
Chad (06:54.694)
Hahaha!
Joel (06:55.882)
I promise you half of Americans couldn't even locate the Netherlands on a map. Let alone.
Chad (07:01.245)
Yeah, we're dumb. He just pointed out that,
Lieven (07:02.308)
But I thought... I thought you were part of the other half. You let me down, Joel. None of it matters, that's right, that's right.
Joel (07:05.4)
Sure. And, and none of it matters. None of it really matters.
Chad (07:11.726)
It all matters, Joel. If it matters to our listeners, it matters. Mark, it matters. Thanks. Thanks for pointing that out, buddy. Appreciate it.
Joel (07:17.454)
I quote Marcus Aurelius, being different to that, doesn't make a difference. Otherwise known as don't sweat the small stuff. If you guys had a good laugh, have a good laugh. Netherlands, Germany.
Lieven (07:18.966)
Lieven (07:29.452)
Yeah, yeah, you're smart, Joe, you're smart, thank you.
Joel (07:33.08)
Clearly I wasn't hugged much as a child, was I? Let's just get to the news, shall we?
Chad (07:33.167)
Yeah.
Lieven (07:35.57)
Educated.
Hmm.
Chad (07:40.256)
And topic kids, yeah. I'm so glad to be back in the saddle. Okay. So guess what? This news from Reuters Axel Springer, the German media conglomerate. This one's actually in Germany, has struck a deal with private equity firm KKR to split its business. The decision will separate the company's media operations, including Build, B -I -L -D and Politico from its growing
digital classifieds business. The media assets will be controlled by CEO, Matthias Doffner. Is that how you say it? Is it Matthias? Matthias? Levin? Matthias. Okay. There you go. I love it. And the Springer family, while KKR and other investors will own the classifieds arm. The deal, which values the company at, get ready, around $13 .50.
Lieven (08:19.139)
Matthias.
Joel (08:21.421)
Neither those.
Chad (08:36.188)
but a billion euros is expected to finalize in the coming months and the hits keep on coming from the kids at Abcast announcing founder and CEO Chris Foreman is retiring and replaced by industry veteran Matt Molinari all on the heels of 18 layoffs that happened last week. Okay, boys. Is this a save your drama for the mama event or business as usual in Germany? This
Joel (09:06.294)
Sounds like lot of Masters of the Universe shit to me.
Lieven (09:07.32)
I we touched on this a little while ago. This is some big money doing big stuff, big egos going on. You have a billionaire saying, I want to hold on to the political arm of this organization. I want hold on to the sexy newspaper that apparently is all the rage. In Germany, I want that business insider property.
Joel (09:12.12)
Look, I think we touched on this a little while ago. This is some big money doing big stuff, big egos going on. have a billionaire saying, I want to hold on to the political arm of this organization. I want to hold onto the sexy newspaper that apparently is all the rage in Germany. I want that business insider property.
Chad (09:33.2)
You said sexy in newspaper.
Joel (09:36.77)
Do what?
Chad (09:38.298)
You said sexy in newspaper.
Joel (09:40.166)
yeah, I did. Hey, look, it gets him into the bet. It gets them into the best parties. I promise it gets them into the best parties. he can go buy football teams and whatever else he wants. He gets to like show off that he's, he's a big swinging Dick in Germany, the classifieds business, which is more profitable, apparently growing. although who knows how well it's growing. KKR gets to take over. We saw this with career builder. It's like, let's cut.
Lieven (09:41.541)
He must be talking about the sun. Famous page 3.
Lieven (09:55.76)
Germany.
Joel (10:09.07)
cut overhead, let's cut off the fat, let's make this baby as profitable as possible and let's turn it around and go IPO. So I suspect step stone and its properties will go IPO at some point, probably next year. KKR stock was up almost 9 % on the news. This is just big money playing with pieces on a chess board, separating things as they want. There's going to be a lot of money made in this deal by everybody. that's what I have to say about that in terms of app cast.
Lieven (10:21.326)
year. KKR stock is up almost 9 % on the news. This is just big money playing with pieces on a chessboard separating things as they want. There's going be a lot of money made in this deal.
Lieven (10:37.594)
terms of AppCast, they're a piece of step stone. I'm sure there was some element of like we need to cut overhead. think that they've grown pretty significantly in head count over the last two years, I think 40 % according to LinkedIn. So they've really hired a lot of people. mean, 18, 20 people I think you see now.
Joel (10:38.862)
They're a piece of step stone. I'm sure there was some element of like, need to cut overhead. I think that they've grown pretty significantly in head count over the last two years. I think 40 % according to, to LinkedIn. they've, they've really hired a lot of people. mean, 18, 20 people, I you said Chad was, was fired. think there are about 500 or so that work there. So it wasn't a huge deal. Now, if you were one of those who was fired and Chad and I,
know a few of them. mean, that affects you a lot and our hearts go out to those folks and hope they land on their feet. Molinari, Chad, we've known since he was just a sales dude at Indeed and to see him rise up to this level is super impressive. He obviously has a different management style. Foreman, very popular. According to Glassdoor, he's an 88 % approval rating.
Chad (11:05.442)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Chad (11:17.542)
Mm.
Chad (11:21.062)
Love it.
Joel (11:28.96)
I've known him since the mid 2000s when he was at Ayers member Ayers. so he's been at this a while. I have to assume that retirement is probably an amenable thing to him. lives in New Hampshire. It's fall in new England. The leaves are about to change or are changing. Like it's a good time to be Chris Foreman, I would suspect. So he's going to step away and live his best life. And, Abcast gets to be a part of private equity, cut the fat.
Chad (11:33.112)
Yeah, Jesus. Yeah.
Joel (11:56.558)
know what efficiency is and hopefully you got your shares kids and you can make a big bank when this thing goes IPO in 2025 or whenever.
Chad (12:09.402)
Leaving, you wanna go? You want me to go.
Lieven (12:12.634)
My two pennies on it, or is it two cents? What's the expression? Two cents, okay, two pennies, two cents, same thing. I think it's kind of dangerous move to put classifieds away from the publishing group because you need classifieds to keep the newspapers alive even though they are sexy according to Jovo. But the other way around goes too, if you only have the classifieds, say don't have the publishing group to constantly keep...
Chad (12:14.096)
Yes. Two cents.
Joel (12:15.822)
to cents.
Lieven (12:40.676)
keep giving them the possibility to advertise. think that's a fair deal. They will both be fucked.
Chad (12:50.192)
Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that they really care about keeping the newspaper alive, especially when they're looking to try to go IPO. Right. So if you...
Lieven (12:58.294)
No, but the CEO is keeping newspapers built and political go to the current CEO and he's...
Chad (13:02.66)
Yeah. Yeah. That's why they're splitting them though, because if they're under the same umbrella now, I mean, it's really an anchor for the rest of the organization. to be able to, their wishes were to go to IPO. So to be able to get that anchor out from around their neck, that's what this feels like. They have about, AppCast has about doubled.
Joel (13:10.52)
Yeah, good luck going IPO with a newspaper empire.
Lieven (13:13.41)
Yeah, true.
Chad (13:28.536)
their, their, employee base. And that was because remember they acquired Bayard. Right. So I also feel like, you know, the IPO piece is one thing, having KKR take over as a majority stakeholder. mean, God bless Matt. I mean, he's a guy who has come up from, from the bottom. We've seen Adam Godson, who was a recruiter and now he's the CEO of Paradox. And now we've got.
Lieven (13:33.913)
Hmm.
Chad (13:57.584)
You know, you've got Matt, who is again, he was a sales guy. He comes up, he's a CEO of Avcast, very incredibly smart dudes in the industry who have spent a lot of time in this industry. but going IPO and then, and then having, P either, man, that's just going to be, that's not going to be fun. It's not going to, it's not going to be fun at all. but yeah, I mean, it's, it's going to be interesting. I think what we're going to see.
is AppCast is going to have to move, as we've talked about it Joel, they're gonna have to move down funnel into more of a CPA CPQ cost per qualified applicant so that they can raise their fees and they can be really the place to go. They have been, I mean, for years, the infrastructure in which advertising, recruitment marketing advertising companies were making money.
Joel (14:32.974)
Mm
Chad (14:53.522)
that is kind of like dwindled since they were acquired by step stone, but these moves are obviously again, they're, they're pieces on the chess board. They want to get to IPO. They want that big payday. Obviously PE wants that big payday. the big question is what happens after that? That's the hard part. So we watched Zipper Kerr to go through IPO and they've gone to shit. What happens after step stone and appcast does that's, that's the hard part for me. I hate to see that.
Joel (15:12.034)
Mm -hmm.
Joel (15:19.776)
Yeah. Molinari better be get used to phone calls like this.
Chad (15:26.582)
God, I love that guy. I hate it.
Joel (15:27.918)
You
Joel (15:32.504)
What's next, Chad?
Chad (15:33.902)
Okay. So next we have our friends at job index in a move that's sure to leave job index reaching for more alcohol. Denmark's commercial court just told the local job board and media trade group. Dance. Me, dear, say it leaving dance leader. No, that's another again, again. Yeah. Well, another Germany.
Lieven (15:54.215)
No idea, no idea. It's another Germany. Denmark is another Germany.
Chad (16:03.496)
anyway, the commercial court pretty much said, nah, Google's fine. The court ruled that Google's republishing of job index ads via Google for jobs didn't violate copyright. obviously the group was shocked and disappointed because apparently they expected a global tech giant, this global tech giant to lose. Meanwhile, job index is surprised by the ruling because who would expect
tech giants to dodge responsibility, right? Time to grab the legal microscope and study the fine print kids, leaving any ideas on what's going on here with job index. Do we see Google winning really as a bad or a good impact to the industry?
Lieven (16:52.27)
probably won't have any impact at all. But I did think Job Index had a case. When we looked into it, I think it's been over a year or maybe even two. But I thought looking into the details, they had a case. And they lost now. It probably has cost them quite some money. if it was a bet, if they would have won, they could have won a lot, I guess. But this is a detail. I don't think it will have any impact at all.
Chad (17:05.521)
Mm
Joel (17:21.793)
We do have some hidden footage from the courthouse. Chad, you ready? Let's check this out.
Chad (17:26.639)
Yes.
Lieven (17:30.969)
Ha
Joel (17:34.062)
Look, no one sues everybody like America can. And this just shows that the Europeans can do it too. This had frivolity written all over it. I didn't see a case leaving. I'm sorry. Maybe I'm looking at this through American eyes, but look, Google, you put your jobs there, they send traffic to you to claim that this was somehow Google competing in a space where you're in this. This just felt like.
Lieven (17:34.113)
Yeah.
Lieven (17:51.628)
But, look, Google, you put your jobs there, they send traffic to you. It's a claim that this was somehow Google competing in a space where you're in. This just felt like an opportunist saying, it's really cool to sue Google now. Hold on a second. It's really cool to sue Google now. I'm gonna get mine. I'm gonna get paid. And I'm gonna win in court. So I bought the courts.
Joel (18:03.232)
an opportunist saying, it's really cool to sue Google. Now, hold on a second. It's really cool to sue Google. Now I'm going to get, I'm going to get mine. I'm going to get paid. and I'm going to win in court. So I, I, I applaud, the courts in Europe for denying, this case. He would have, they would have been better off hiring some SEOs to optimize their job postings, to leverage Google much better.
Lieven (18:20.89)
Okay. They would have been better off hiring some SEOs to optimize their job postings to leverage.
Joel (18:28.354)
than they probably currently are. By the way, I'm sure the dude's jobs are on Google for jobs and they never been off Google for jobs. So while he's leveraging Google for jobs, he's suing them. So it's, it's quite hypocritical in my opinion. This is not surprised me at all. found it frivolous from the beginning.
Chad (18:44.666)
Let - re we'll even have a rebuttal before I lay into this one.
Joel (18:46.936)
Sure.
Lieven (18:47.015)
Yeah, if I remember correctly, the whole case was that the guy didn't want to be on Google for jobs and another website scraped his site. The other website was indexed by Google. So through the other website, his jobs did appear on Google for jobs. And there, think Google made a mistake. They have to figure a way out to say, if someone is scraping you without you knowing it, we take the jobs from that someone. Yeah.
Chad (18:53.211)
Yes.
Chad (18:57.126)
Mm -hmm.
Lieven (19:14.362)
They're still appearing on Google, so Google has to blame.
Chad (19:17.525)
So this is where I think that whole thought process is flawed. They sued Google. They should have sued the company that was scraping their jobs.
Lieven (19:25.804)
Yeah, but they were, we checked it back then. There was a post, it was a post office company somewhere in some kind of a weird state in Africa. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, but that's easy for Google to say. It's easy for Google to say, yeah, sorry, we just scraped that site. We don't know that they were stealing your jobs. It's like when I buy something which is stolen, I'm to blame. I should have known it was stolen even though I did not. It's the same thing.
Joel (19:26.584)
There was no money.
Joel (19:32.248)
Yeah, they weren't. It would have been, it would have been a, Google has money.
Chad (19:35.45)
Well, it's very simple. At that point, at that point.
Chad (19:51.448)
If you're buying something out of the back of a car, I can understand where you should know it's stolen. So much content on the internet, first and foremost, two things should have happened. Job index should have gone to that organization to try to get it shut down. Secondarily, they should have gone to Google to tell Google to get their jobs off the site, right? To be able to let them know. So if they would have gone through that process, then maybe, okay?
Lieven (19:57.134)
I don't know.
Lieven (20:13.082)
Of course, maybe they did.
Chad (20:19.366)
But from my understanding, what happened was they literally just saw their jobs. They didn't have the markup and then they sued. So at that point, you know, you've got to go through your due diligence and in our space, we are horrible about due diligence. So if they would have gone through those hoops and they would have presented that to the court, I think the court would have said, yeah, no, I totally understand. You went to Google, you told them that this was, this was wrought with, with fraud. what you call fraud.
Lieven (20:47.183)
Mm
Chad (20:48.828)
then let's go ahead and let's sue Google. That just makes sense. But in this case, I don't believe that was the case. Job index was they were looking for a big payday. That's what it feels like. The commission find Google shopping 2 .4 billion euros. So here's the funny part. Now job index is now required to pay 1 .7 million kroner, which is literally just the equivalent of 143 ,000 euros. But at the end of the day, it looked like
You take a look at Google shopping and say, ha, we gotcha, right? We can do exactly what they did, but they didn't go through the due diligence or at least from what I've read, they haven't, they didn't go through enough due diligence to ensure that they jumped through the legal hoops so that they could actually get their payday.
Joel (21:38.414)
By the way, you don't even need lawyers in this. Like get your developers to find out who's coming in to scrape your shit and either block them, redirect them. Like there are ways to do this from a technical side of things that they don't need to get the lawyers involved. This probably was some hacker Bush league website that was out scraping jobs. Like fuck them, fuck them over. Like send them to a porn site if they come to your property.
Lieven (21:39.214)
don't even need lawyers in this. Get your developers to find out who's coming in to scrape your shit. You can either block them, redirect them. There are ways to do this from the technical side of things.
Push the website that was outspoken jobs. Like, fuck them over. Like, them to a porn site.
Chad (22:04.922)
And at that point, you can show what you've gone through, right? You can show the hoops that you went through. You can show the money and the resources that you spent instead of just going directly to Google and say, saying no. So again, it's, and again, we're really good at this in the U S it's all about being able to pile up that case. And it didn't really feel like they had a case.
big breath. Sorry, Job Index. We'll be right back.
All right, kids, we have buy or sell. What do we do buy or sell Joel? Well, we have three startups that just got funding. I will read a quick overview and our experts. Yes, that's Joel and leaving. Well, tell us if they would, they would buy or sell that company first on the block is skill view, skill view, the Milan based HR tech.
Lieven (22:49.22)
You
Joel (22:49.87)
Not geographical experts.
Lieven (22:57.452)
you
Chad (23:02.876)
startup just bagged 2 .8 million to make sure your next hire isn't a complete disaster using AI. there there there are the words kids AI to assess skills. Skill views platform basically says quote, hey, forget the resume. Let's see what you can actually do. With backing from investors like Italian Founders Fund and 14 Peaks Capital, they're out to fix the global skills gap.
because apparently that's just a casual 11 .5 trillion with a T problem. With clients like Carrefour already on board, it's only a matter of time before they start ruling the world. Watch out! LinkedIn, you've got a competitor. Is this a buy or sell? Mr. Cheeseman.
Joel (23:53.838)
By the way, it's pronounced Mylon here in Indiana. It's pronounced Mylon. Just let everybody know that. Watch the movie Hoosiers, by the way. If you know, you know. So their website says, go beyond the CV. This company was formerly Algo AI. So they've sort of brought some.
Chad (24:09.102)
Mmm.
Joel (24:16.654)
Organically seems to be going in the right direction. A head count is growing naturally in quite health, in a healthy way. They're up 33 % in the last two years. They're about 20 employees. So don't get too excited about that growth. It's a pretty small base, but look roughly, you know, a few forces are coming together here. Globally. I didn't know this when I looked this up, there are over a billion and a half people that are freelancing around the globe.
Lieven (24:17.242)
organically seems to be going in right direction. Head count is growing naturally in a quite healthy way. We've got 33 % in the last two years. We've got 20 employees on the good side of that road. It's a pretty small base. roughly, a few forces are coming together here. Globally,
Joel (24:45.4)
That's a lot fewer people that are in the bucket of, of applicants that, that companies can tap into. That's globally. But if you look at Europe, Europe's aging, immigration challenges, I think we just saw Germany shut off a lot of its border immigration, leaving. can probably speak to that better than I can. So you have a lot of issues where people are doing other things. Population is aging. They're not letting people in. So you don't have as big of a universe.
Lieven (25:04.844)
So you have a lot of issues where people are other things, population is aging, they're not letting people in. So you don't have as big of a universe of people with degrees, credentials, et cetera, you have traditionally. And as a result, you have to hire more and more skills -based approach. That's global, that's also in Europe or so, anywhere else. So.
Joel (25:14.496)
of people with degrees, credentials, et cetera, that you have traditionally. And as a result, you have to hire more and more on a skills -based approach. That's global. That's also in Europe more so than anywhere else. So for me, like this is, these are, these are demographic forces that say this business is going to have a hard time losing because more and more companies are going to be able to say, look, we don't have enough people in the degree section or credentials. We need to go to a.
Lieven (25:30.052)
me
Joel (25:43.412)
a different way of finding people. I think SkillView is right at the crossroads of that. they're going to have a hard time being unsuccessful because of the demographic forces that are out there. So for that reason, SkillView is a buy from me.
Chad (25:54.105)
Hmm.
Chad (26:03.153)
Leave it.
Lieven (26:07.044)
For exactly the same reasons Joel was talking about, it's a sell for me. So the whole buzz go beyond the CV, analyze candidate scales.
I mean, analyze candidate skills in a quick and objective way. That's what we've got CVs for. It's a one -pager with skills and objective information. for me, it won't work. For me, it's a sell.
Chad (26:24.046)
Mm.
Joel (26:34.638)
Fair enough.
Chad (26:34.748)
I gotta say, so Nicolo, or Nicolo, maybe, I don't know. He graduated high school in 2018. This is a baby, right? The founder, which I think is incredibly impressive. So right out of the box, I like that SkillView is a talent acquisition and talent management tool, which represents the company's entire life cycle, which is why skills are so powerful.
It's what we're looking for and what we're developing in companies. From the TechEU article, in the recruitment phase, SkillView's innovative technology based on proprietary AI carries out asynchronous interviews aimed at assessing the skills and motivation of candidates, making the identification of high potential candidates immediate, end quote. What the hell did that actually mean?
That word salad of crap, right? I think we're seeing a lot of companies, a lot of companies, they can't find the real meat to what they're doing and they can't actually get that messaging out to the world. Skills is big right now. Why? Because tech has us by the balls. We are moving fast and if you don't keep your people, you don't upskill them.
then you're going to have an issue, right? So I really believe that this organization has the right idea. The problem is they don't have the people in charge. And again, love that they've got this young founder, but what they need is they need to bring people in from the industry, guys like Levin, who really know tech, they know the industry, and they can actually make this happen because kids skills is...
They are not easy to be able to identify skills, even in a resume using parsing contextualization. None of that is easy. So unfortunately, because of that, this is a cell for me.
Chad (28:43.42)
On to Jobbilla or is it Jobia? Helsinki based Jobbilla has raised 6 million euros to further develop its AI powered recruitment tools. More AI kids, imagine that. The platform aims to cut recruitment campaign setup time by half by automating tedious tasks like ad creation and candidate screening. One of the standout features, multi -language localization
So companies no longer need to rely on Google Translate level marketing while expanding globally. Investors include Jury Partners and TrendVC and backing Jobila's plan to dominate the European market with these tools, which are already used in 50 countries. Now, finding the right candidate is a little less like hunting for a needle in a haystack and hey,
Now they can do it in any language. Joel, what do you think about Jabilla?
Joel (29:46.306)
Jabela, Helsinki. I love the Scandis. Their companies are always so interesting. If you go to their LinkedIn company page, one of their recent posts is a video collage of a big party that they had. And I was reminded of our Swedish expedition where we had electronica beating into our heads. And I'm still a little bit deaf from that party. So they know how to have a good time.
Chad (29:52.39)
We're all over the map on this one.
Lieven (30:04.906)
the most effective and humane way to match businesses to people.
Chad (30:10.36)
EDM.
Joel (30:14.19)
crank the ABBA, and, and enjoy, but look, their website says the most effective and humane way to match businesses to people. don't know if that's lost in translation. I've never heard our industry described as humane in terms of our, our technology head count is not great. They're down 23%, in the last two years, their VP of sales, the last one was there for five months.
Lieven (30:31.652)
the
Joel (30:42.686)
I wonder if they use their own technology to find that guy because he wasn't a very good hire. The current COO has only been there for six months, which tells me that there's a little bit of weirdness at the top of this organization. On the good side, their G2 reviews are good. And if you go to their website, the entire top of the site is all their reviews and how well they've done on a multitude of review sites.
Lieven (31:07.96)
You say shockingly to me, is this game maybe company one of their testimonials is from Arkansas surgical hospital. I don't know what kind of
Joel (31:08.522)
Shockingly to me as a Scandinavian company, one of their testimonials is from Arkansas surgical hospital. So I don't know what kind of pipeline, Helsinki is running into Arkansas. but that's kind of an odd one to point out. ultimately I couldn't find anything that was unique, special, interesting, about this company. Maybe they're doing well, but I don't see any kind of, excitement or anything that would get me interested other than.
The parties that they're having in Helsinki. want to party with you guys. cowboy other than that, this one is a cell from me.
Chad (31:47.92)
What do you think?
Lieven (31:50.904)
I had the same idea as Joel reading about the humane way to match businesses and people. When I read a humane way, I always think something will follow like to put a dog to sleep or something. A humane way, it's something nasty is going to follow. But in this case, I looked into it and even though everything they say is totally true, they don't offer anything. I don't already have in my fancy little folder with AI tools. So it's just another graphic interface combining existing stuff.
Chad (32:15.537)
Mm.
Lieven (32:19.778)
I didn't find anything really new. And if I missed something out, people from Jobia, please contact me and tell me. But to me, wasn't that spectacular. So it's a sell.
Chad (32:35.75)
Yeah, I love this idea in platform. The problem is not everybody leaving is as advanced as you are in Europe. We're not seeing programmatic performance based advertising taken off, right? So to be able to actually get something like this on the social side of the house and actually have a platform do this, I really don't see market penetration at all.
in Europe or at least a very small fraction in Europe. Now, if they were coming across the pond to the US where we are very heavy on the programmatic side and we're doing more of this type of advertising, would be, I'd be more apt to prospectively buy, but unfortunately it's going to be a sell from me and Joel, in November,
Chad (33:29.788)
In November, there's a great startup slash investor, pretty much dance party slash, yeah, well, it's called Slush and there's about 27 ,000 people go and it's to be pretty amazing. So we might have to go pick Lieven up one of these years and go to Slush.
Joel (33:37.24)
There you go.
Joel (33:50.604)
I do know slush. We can get press passes at slush. think we can have a good time at slush. Who's last?
Lieven (33:51.373)
Slush. Cool.
Chad (33:53.404)
yeah. yeah. All right. All right. So next we have Swiss, we're all over the map here, kids. Swiss digital coaching platform Flowit has just bagged 4 .2 million euros in seed funding, the, proving that even non -desk workers deserve some AI powered love, AI all over everything. Flowit.
Flowit is on a mission to give real -time feedback and development to often overlooked frontline employees like healthcare workers and hospitality staff because apparently annual reviews aren't cutting it anymore. With big plans for international expansion, Flowit is set to make sure your local barista gets the same career coaching in the office cubicle as your office cubicle buddy does. Investors are thrilled and Flowit promises to cut
turnover by 50, five zero percent because who doesn't want to keep their favorite technician around? Joel, are you going to flow it or know it?
Joel (35:02.614)
You got to flow it, flow it. You got to flow it, flow it. So if, if, if skill view was about recruiting, this is about retention. for the same reasons I like skill view demographics, gig economy where people like keeping your people is more important than ever, before. And we know, we know how much the kids love engagement. Look,
Chad (35:17.854)
Mm.
Chad (35:27.097)
Mm
Joel (35:31.854)
The days of the annual review being enough to satisfy a worker, those days are over. You need constant engagement. need education. You need that, that dopamine hit on a regular basis. If you're an employer and a company like flow, it is looking to get into that game. So for the same reasons that I, like skill view, I like flow it, they have a lot of competition. mean, 15 five culture, app nectar, even survey monkey is getting into this space, but there's a reason.
It's a big need for companies. Losing people is expensive. Companies hate it. They want to keep people as much as possible. So for those reasons, Flow It is something that I can get down with. It's a buy.
Chad (36:16.545)
What do think, Levin?
Lieven (36:16.59)
He's in a buying mood. He's a buying mood.
Chad (36:19.598)
He's in a buying bid. What do think, Levin?
Joel (36:19.758)
Two out of three ain't bad.
Lieven (36:21.977)
Hmm?
And once again, exactly for the same reasons Joe will put up for me, it's a sell because I totally agree it's important to listen to your people, but just talk to them and talk to your teams and stay in touch instead of using software to do what you should be doing as a manager. And I always feel why does everything has to be documented and structured and boring. mean, it used to work back in the days. Maybe it didn't work that good, but it worked. So I think employees satisfactory survey, seriously, man.
have a drink with the people and hear what's going on and fix it if it's broken. So for me it's a sell. It's like putting a bandage on the wound and don't...
Joel (37:04.238)
Speaking of two or three, ain't bad.
Chad (37:07.642)
Yeah, so this one was definitely hard for me because I love the idea of giving employees feedback. It's incredibly important, but I don't believe it should be from an app or a digital coach. The data collected should be provided as leaving it said to a manager. And then the digital coach helps the manager, the human support structure to better understand and assess their entire team. I'm a fan of employee engagement and scaling the engagement, but you have to have to teach. You have to teach your managers.
Lieven (37:24.836)
Hmm.
Chad (37:37.606)
how to lead. And if a digital coach is doing all the heavy lifting, why the hell do we need managers? It's a bit too Skynet for me. So, you know, it's a sell.
Joel (37:51.238)
back. Boys, it's been fun as usual!
Chad (37:52.313)
Hahaha
Lieven (37:52.42)
Thank
Chad (37:56.516)
And we will be back.
Joel (37:58.062)
We'll be back, but for now, we out.
Lieven (38:00.47)
We out.
Chad (38:01.22)
We out.
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