In this side-splitting episode of The Chad & Cheese Podcast Does Europe, the boys, joined by the always-unfiltered Lieven, navigate the continent with the grace of a bull in a china shop. From sexy Belgian bureaucracy (yes, you read that right) to the AI apocalypse taking over the workplace, no topic is too wild—or too inappropriate.
They'll unravel why Germany’s economy is as flat as yesterday's beer, dish out GDPR truths that’ll have American tech giants crying into their LinkedIn profiles, and throw in some bold predictions about AI being the next HR overlord.
Oh, and startups? They're here to roast a few: will CoachHub, Popp AI, and Talentium be the next unicorns, or just another parade of LinkedIn buzzwords? Spoiler: nobody is safe from the snark.
Grab your coffee (or something stronger) and prepare for laughs, gasps, and a crash course in European chaos!
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Joel (00:34.516)
Three guys who are still waiting for their presidential pardon. Never convicted. You are listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast Does Europe? I'm your cohost, Joel Sickleaf, Detective Cheeseman.
Chad (00:46.19)
This is Chad Blue Monday, so watch.
Lieven (00:49.423)
And I'm busy bringing in, unifying, van evenuzen.
Chad (00:53.006)
You
Joel (00:53.81)
And on this episode, just grab them in the euro, sick leave detectives and who'd you rather? It's an episode that'll bring you to your shananananese, nice.
Chad (01:07.192)
So bad.
You
Joel (01:10.802)
When I wrote that it was about eight o'clock at night and reading it at 9 a.m. in the morning doesn't quite have the same, same hit. But yeah, that's my, that's my axle Rose everybody.
Lieven (01:19.929)
Here it's... Here it's afternoon and I liked it.
Chad (01:20.11)
Especially if he had more bourbon. it was good. It was good. I like how you tied it back to Welcome to the Jungle. was very nice. we know. we know. we know.
Joel (01:25.864)
Alright.
Yeah, I weave it. I'm like Trump. I weave everything in together to where it all makes sense at the end. I've already brought Trump up. For God's sakes. So he's officially in. People want to know what Europeans think about the Trump inauguration and what's coming. Leaving?
Lieven (01:38.225)
Trump.
Chad (01:42.69)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (01:46.536)
yeah.
Lieven (01:51.121)
I actually watched it and I must say I was surprised. I really thought during the election phase, I thought he was playing a role and he was trying to get the votes from those angry people and unhappy people and all those other people. And he was actually trying to get their votes, but he's going to play along. He's actually going to do it. It was creepy watching the whole thing really. And normally I don't like those cheap references to Nazi Germany because it trivialize.
Chad (02:05.442)
He was.
Joel (02:06.771)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (02:08.49)
yeah.
Chad (02:14.402)
Yeah, yeah.
Chad (02:19.299)
Yeah.
Lieven (02:20.847)
what happened back then. But if you look in this case, you can't get around the similarities. mean, it's like they're actually trying to make a 21st century adaptation of the whole thing with Musk pretending to be globals and showing his right arm and excitement, or maybe even Albert Speer, the one who did the government for Hitler. Anyways, so Musk was playing his role, and then they're actually
Joel (02:21.243)
huh.
Chad (02:22.092)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (02:30.072)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (02:36.525)
Yeah.
Lieven (02:45.807)
releasing all the Proud Boys, the Proud Boys who are like the Sturmabteilung in Germany, the brown shirts, which later became the black shirts and the SS. But there really are many similarities. talking about, we need Lebensraum, we want to expand our territory, and we need to take the Panama channel because we gave it to Panama, now the Chinese, they took it, so we need to take it back, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The whole list goes on.
Chad (02:48.622)
Mm.
Joel (02:50.334)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (02:52.067)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joel (03:04.532)
Mm-hmm.
Lieven (03:15.129)
and signing those hundreds of, what's it called? Presidential dictates, executive orders, whatever. And just playing the big dictator, I was just astonished looking at it. I mean, in Europe we have presidents, but they don't have any actual power. mean, you have the parliament and the president is in charge, but his power is limited. But what this guy is doing, suddenly it actually felt like a new dictatorship.
Chad (03:19.18)
And yeah, Eos, yeah
Joel (03:19.302)
executive orders executive orders
Joel (03:36.148)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (03:38.029)
Yeah.
Lieven (03:43.299)
Okay, but you're the Americans and I'm not going to tell you how to...
Joel (03:47.732)
So are you literally thinking we're going to have boots on the ground in Greenland taking over Greenland and we're going to have soldiers in Panama take, like what, is that what you think is happening?
Lieven (03:57.571)
No, the Greenland. No, I can't. I just can't imagine that he would take Greenland without Denmark giving us consent. And by the way, Denmark will never give it, give its consent. Denmark are the Vikings. Remember? They're small, but are pretty tough people. I used to have a girlfriend in Denmark. know it. know it. Believe me. But yeah. And Sophia, if you hear this, I'm sorry. But I really am.
Chad (04:08.846)
No they shouldn't.
Chad (04:13.293)
Yeah?
Joel (04:14.258)
Let's put a pin in that one. Let's put a pin in that. Okay. Girlfriend in Denmark.
Chad (04:15.756)
Hahaha
Chad (04:21.358)
Eh.
Joel (04:22.013)
You
Lieven (04:25.659)
But back to Panama, that I actually can imagine that he would send some force because what's Panama going to do?
Chad (04:33.454)
Yeah, I lived right on the Panama Canal in the military. So I mean, I was there as in Fort, Fort Clayton in Panama. And so I got up every morning. I was on the third floor. First thing I saw on my way to the latrine to take a shower was the Panama Canal. The mirror floor is locked, watching big boats come through. And I couldn't believe that we gave it back to them, to be quite frank. So when it happened, it was like, holy shit, man, I can't believe that we're releasing this, although we did.
Joel (04:53.107)
Yeah.
Chad (05:01.58)
Right. So we made that decision. It did happen. So being able to go into a sovereign territory, which is what Panama is, and try to reclaim something. And then talking to Denmark about taking Greenland. mean, it just see this is the this is one of the biggest problems that Trump has is he doesn't understand strategy at all. It's all they're all specifically little tactics. Right. And OK, great. China's saying, yeah, please take Greenland. Take take. mean,
Joel (05:03.444)
Yeah.
Chad (05:31.352)
try to take the Panama Canal, right? But take Greenland because we're going to go and get Taiwan, which has the biggest chip manufacturer in the world. And guess what? That'll be ours. So I mean,
Lieven (05:31.505)
course.
Lieven (05:38.789)
and
Lieven (05:42.703)
And where is your moral superiority if you take Panama? Of course!
Chad (05:45.496)
Gone, gone. Well, it's gone now anyway. But I mean, OK, so from a European standpoint, I personally think it's good for Europe long term. And stick with me. As we saw with Russia invading Ukraine, it brought the European Union closer together. Now with economic hardships, the EU countries can't and they won't run to the US rather to each other to hopefully create a stronger, more stable European Union. So remember.
The US is literally just 50 different countries. call them states, but there are 50 different countries that have been somewhat united for hundreds of years. Now, the EU is a collection of countries who've been around for thousands of years, but they've never really been united. I mean, you know, Ottoman Empire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
Lieven (06:30.011)
We've mostly, to be honest, we've been enemies. So I mean, you have different languages and it's not the same thing.
Chad (06:37.754)
It's not the same thing, although it can be the same thing from the standpoint of actually unification and stabilization. That's one of the reasons why you guys are not stable is because you don't look toward each other. You try to isolate in some cases. So if you take a look at the US again, one currency, one language, that's not going to not going to change in the EU, but it's a stabilizing force.
And then people will say, well, what about Italy in Greece? Those guys are tanking us. Well, have you heard of Mississippi, Louisiana and fucking Alabama? For God's sakes, we have our own versions of that. Right. So I think this could be if leadership gets, know, gets their head out of the sand, could be good for Europe. And again, I'm just I'm trying to be trying to be positive, trying to be positive.
Joel (07:23.676)
You certainly will be forced to protect yourselves in a way that you haven't had to do since World War II and whether that creates more of a pre-World War II Europe where you guys kind of lick each other with little suspicion and what's going on over there, or if you guys unite and pull resources and military intelligence, et cetera. I like to think that it's the latter and not the former.
Chad (07:28.258)
Yeah? Yeah?
Lieven (07:29.507)
effect.
Chad (07:46.433)
Yeah, let's hope.
Joel (07:47.86)
but yeah, the good news, I guess, is you guys in some ways are going to be thrown out into the pool. And if you swim and you all swim together, it could be a very, very good thing, but unquestionably, you're going to spend more on military. you're going to have a, you probably have a lot of cheap Chinese goods that are going to flow into the country. If there's a trade war, with us in China, that's probably tough on local businesses. I know you guys have a real soft spot in your heart for the local businesses, but it'll be a, it'll be a time of change in Europe.
Lieven (07:54.801)
And I... a lot more.
Joel (08:16.934)
as it historically always does, we'll either rise to the top or it'll, you know, fall into warfare and, realignment.
Lieven (08:25.233)
And it's a fact we've been taking advantage of the United States military protection for 50 years, even longer.
Chad (08:31.574)
It's what the US wanted though too though. I mean, this was very much something we engineered. Yeah. No, of course not.
Joel (08:34.854)
It is. In return of controlling the oceans.
Lieven (08:39.761)
cars. And they don't want a strong Europe or they didn't want a strong Europe, why would they? So they were being our big brother and taking care of us and we happily took advantage of it, being naive. But now suddenly, we've got a problem.
Joel (08:50.004)
Sure. And what that does to entitlements and retirement age and I mean, lot of things are gonna, it's gonna be a wild time in Europe, man. It's gonna be a wild time in Europe.
Chad (09:01.486)
Well, I tell you, the thing is that Europe was able to, instead of spending on defense, they could spend on healthcare and they could spend on education. So now we take a look at the US, who was much less healthy and dumber than we were many years ago. If you take a look at the actual global standards, US isn't even in the top 10. We've got the best healthcare institutions, the best educational institutions, and yet...
Lieven (09:01.616)
No.
Chad (09:30.744)
We're not the most healthy. We're not the smartest, right? So it's one of those things. What's that? Yes.
Lieven (09:33.753)
But the happy few probably yes. The happy few probably yes. They have access to those health institutions and they probably have access to the best education, even though I don't agree that it's the best.
Chad (09:44.718)
That's what it is. It's access. It's access. It's access. I 100 % correct. 100 % agree. But I mean, but that that has really hurt the US because we spent so much on defense. We didn't need to spend that much. I mean, give me a fucking break. But we spent so much on defense. Then it cost us health care, education and prosperity to our people. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why they're so pissed off.
Lieven (10:07.537)
Probably.
Chad (10:11.436)
People aren't making the wages there. We've got 40 over 40 million people below the poverty line. They're looking for somebody to blame. And one of the things that Trump is really good at is blaming motherfuckers. Right. Well, and me, I didn't touch her. Right. See your horse. I mean, it's just it's like he's always making excuses. And the people who have much weaker fortitude, they're going to go along with it.
Lieven (10:22.587)
Blaming. So it's all.
Joel (10:28.286)
Yeah.
Lieven (10:29.809)
that
Joel (10:39.368)
popular narrative in the States is why are we sending Ukraine so much money when you have the LA fires and getting so little relief for that. the narrative in the US is more isolationists, more bad Europeans, more bad Asians. And so that's just going to be the theme going forward.
Lieven (10:58.415)
And I can even understand that. mean, why sending billions to Ukraine? It's not your war. I can agree with that. And you have bigger problems, probably local problems, which should be bigger problems.
Chad (11:11.051)
What happened during World War II when Sudetenland happened? Leaven, you remember that?
Lieven (11:16.579)
Everyone said... Okay, okay, okay, but don't do it again. Stop there. We don't want war. We don't want the war.
Chad (11:19.374)
It's all good, all good, all good, all good. What did Americans end up having to do instead of just spending money? What did we have to do? We lost American lives. So when we forget history and we forget what happened before, the money that we're sending is actually saving American lives. And it's also trying to, again, pull together a much stronger, hopefully, European Union. The thing is, though, when Trump's talking about like,
Joel (11:20.126)
Peace in our time.
Lieven (11:42.928)
Yeah.
Chad (11:49.184)
economics and stuff like that. It's going to be interesting. It's really going to be interesting because war, economy, I mean, there's so many prongs and he has a hard enough time, you know, focusing on one thing. It's going to be the plates aren't going to be spinning. Let's just say that they're all going to be smashed on the floor.
Lieven (12:09.425)
And the only promise he didn't keep seemed to be ending the war in Ukraine and they won. Now he's talking about six months and I need to talk to Putin. But he also, he gave me the impression he doesn't like Putin that much anymore. He thinks he's a loser anyway. So I think he changed his mind about the whole Putin thing. He used to admire him. He's a decisive making man and he's a powerful leader. And now he thinks...
Chad (12:31.842)
He'll get back to that. Yeah, he'll get back to that.
Joel (12:32.564)
Yeah. I think Macron had a really good, uh, I don't know if was an interview or a lecture that he did, but he said, quote, uh, the United States of America has two priorities. The USA first, and that is legitimate and the China issue second. And the European issue is not a geopolitical priority for the coming years or decades. So we're going to be focusing on Asia and the challenges there. You guys are going to have to like.
Lieven (12:46.225)
Mm.
Joel (13:01.18)
Spend money on defense and fill in the gaps. Yes.
Lieven (13:03.345)
we will belgium already belgium already bought 30 f35s or something
Chad (13:10.701)
Hahaha
Lieven (13:13.051)
So everything will be fine. Yeah.
Joel (13:13.428)
I love this. I love the spirit. And there were no, there were no tariffs in Europe that were brought up yesterday. It was only Canada and Mexico. So maybe you guys will be spared some of the, tariff pain.
Lieven (13:23.107)
Indeed,
Chad (13:23.214)
Those are probing issues. We'll see how those work and see how they actually impact the economy. The one thing that I thought was interesting is reading through some of the articles that we share in our group. Trump had said that he doesn't want to see any Mercedes-Benz on the street in New York. He's literally like trying to put the press on Germany. So Mercedes-Benz USA employs 1,400 people and that Mercedes-Benz plant in Tuscalooga,
Lieven (13:28.186)
Yeah.
Joel (13:44.414)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (13:53.63)
Tuscaloosa!
Chad (13:53.946)
Tuscaloosa fuck Alabama. I try to forget that place produces the GLE. It produces a bunch of different automobiles exclusively for the world market in 150 different markets. Right. So that money is being made. Fourteen hundred jobs. Then you take a look at another German company where my cousin actually works at BMW in South Carolina. And as of 2019 the BMW Spartanburg manufacturing plant South Carolina had the highest
Lieven (13:58.235)
You
Chad (14:22.542)
production volume of all BMW plants in the world, producing about 1500 vehicles per day and has reportedly 11,000 employees in different locations across the US. Plus the CEO of Ford is driving a Xiaomi. Why would a big three CEO be driving around a Chinese made EV? We're seeing.
a lot of different things in industries happening that is just, it's alarming to be quite frank.
Joel (14:53.876)
Competitive research, obviously, is why he's driving a Chinesey.
Chad (14:56.418)
Yeah, good luck with that. Good luck with that.
Joel (15:00.414)
Well, speaking of Tuscaloosa Chad, I hope all those Bama fans enjoyed Ohio State racking up another national title.
Chad (15:07.852)
topics. it's good to have another night.
Joel (15:10.58)
All right, too much Trump talk. No, shout outs today. Let's get to a holy shit. got, we got more layoffs. talked about a hay job last time, but blaming blaming challenges due to slowed growth in 2024 employment site. Welcome to the jungle is refocusing on core activities that achieve profitability. That's Latin for
Chad (15:18.413)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (15:34.354)
You're fired. think they're launching a voluntary separation plan in France involving 35 roles across several departments and ceasing operations in the Czech Republic. The company says such measures will allow the company to concentrate on high potential markets. you guessed it, the UK and the USA while innovating in recruitment, particularly with AI Chad, you can have anything you want, but you're better not take it from me. What are your thoughts on welcome to the jungle?
Chad (16:02.914)
So here's a quote over the past decade. We've explored numerous initiatives while these ventures have been enriching. Some have taken us away from our core mission, matching the right talents with the right companies. That's one of the biggest problems that I see startups having on a daily basis. They just don't have focus. And when they have new initiatives that pop up and let's just say a company comes in and says, will you build this for me?
will pay you, right? Well, you can do that, but you're going to be using resources that could be more, you know, across the market with different brands instead of just one brand and you're putting all your eggs in one basket. We saw this with the programmatic side of the house with Amazon and Amazon went to one company and they bought that hell out of pay per click and then they pulled it all away and gave it to somebody else. And that first
programmatic company went into dire straits. Same kind of shit happens, right? You can't put all your eggs in one basket. Number one. Number two, you have to stay focused. Then I go to YouTube just to kind of, you know, get more of a flavor of what these guys are up to. And they're talking about the UK and they're talking about the US and yada yada yada all their shit on YouTube's in fucking French. I mean, I not that I hate French, but for God sakes, at least you can have a French channel.
UK channel, a US channel, but if you're trying to get into those markets, you better speak the fucking language. And for some reason, they're just not doing it.
Joel (17:36.178)
Yeah, yeah, no doubt.
Joel (17:41.022)
So this is definitely not a paradise city for some employees this past week. Sorry. I just couldn't, could not, could not, could not. What a, what a dumb name for a company. Like let's, let's just launch, some sugar on me.com and make it a job board. what you would, you got, you degenerates would like that obviously. or some shirt.
Lieven (17:46.976)
Nice one Joel, nice one.
Chad (17:47.95)
Not for my Michelle. Not for my Michelle.
Chad (17:58.158)
I do like that. I do like that.
Lieven (18:01.179)
Don't you cry tonight, Joel,
Joel (18:08.198)
So, so these guys raised 54 million.
Lieven (18:09.913)
Are you talking about untr-menschen now? Degenerates? It's spreading the whole fascist thing in the US. Anyway, sorry, continue.
Chad (18:16.91)
Ha ha ha!
Joel (18:18.182)
Again with the fascism, Levin. Again with the fascism.
Lieven (18:20.047)
Nah.
Chad (18:21.038)
It's just out there in plain sight. He can't do anything but talk about it.
Joel (18:25.042)
I know I'm very scared for Europe's opinion on the, the Trump administration. they raised a bunch of money. launched about 10 years ago. They raised most of the money in 2019, 54 million. made some acquisitions like they bought. I'm sure Paul Forster, former indeed a founder enjoyed that acquisition, but it was probably not the best acquisition you could make. they have probably hit a ceiling in France. They focused really.
Chad (18:43.01)
Yeah.
Joel (18:54.738)
really laser focused on France and it's a tough market. So if you've hit a ceiling in France, what the hell do you do? Well, you shut down Czech Republic, which probably was not a big market to begin with. I don't know if that was an acquisition or, or Joey bag of donuts had an office in the Czech Republic. So let's open up an office there. but that was dumb.
Chad (19:08.354)
Yeah.
Joel (19:15.764)
Your assets that you have in the UK and the US in comparison to France is kind of stupid. They have 697 associates in France and they have 133 in the UK and only 132 in the US. So this seems like a smart move to me. Let's shut down the things that aren't working or where we've hit kind of a ceiling or where we've saturated the market. And this is going to be a big story in 2025. It's companies in Europe.
that are coming to the U S because that's where the dollars are. That's where the growth is. You're going to see a lot of these companies, try to salvage their business by coming to America. And this was simply, let's lay off a few people in France. Let's focus more on the UK and the U S, good luck with that. The history of job boards that have tried that is not very great, but, Hey, with the name like welcome to the jungle, what could possibly go wrong? I'd love to be on one of those sales calls by the.
Chad (20:07.832)
Shun-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-ease.
Joel (20:11.09)
Welcome to the what? You're with who?
Lieven (20:13.617)
Hello, it is I from Welcome to the Jungle.
Joel (20:15.613)
Leave in your thoughts.
Chad (20:21.55)
What do you think, Levin? So French companies buying Czech companies buying Ottawa's UK, was it not? Yeah.
Joel (20:29.36)
Ottawa's UK, which might've been their strategy to come to the UK. but auto was a brand like that was a startup. it's all millennial warm and fuzzy. It's like, kind of, what kind of focus do you have? Is it environmental? Is it career growth? Is it life work life balance? So it's very warm and fuzzy Gen Z, millennial job board. I don't know. It's
Chad (20:33.614)
Yeah.
That was not a great brand.
Chad (20:51.256)
Are they on your &A board, Cleveland?
Joel (20:53.885)
Yeah.
Lieven (20:54.831)
No, no, no.
Lieven (20:59.057)
No, but to be fair I...
Joel (21:01.224)
You don't want the jungle to come to the house, house of HR.
Lieven (21:04.049)
We've got plenty of jungle, believe me. Sometimes I feel the monkey in the jungle. But anyways, I don't really know them that well. They've been around for 10 years, think. I founded in 2015 somewhere. But from time to time I hear about them, but I don't really know them. I never worked with them and I don't think any of our companies has them as a partnership. during the past 10 years, they're...
Chad (21:16.974)
Mm-hmm.
Lieven (21:33.603)
Situation has changed drastically. I mean, there has been a lot of consolidation going around the lot more competition the Way people are hiring is changing very fast has become a very technical very professional and I think the biggest companies Are the very creative companies are going to win and and I might be wrong because I really don't know them, but well but I don't think they're one of both and I feel after 10 years they need to change drastically or just close down in a
and check here and in France and et cetera, and maybe do something else.
Chad (22:06.264)
Sounds like it's gonna be a shuddering of more than that soon if they don't get their shit together.
Lieven (22:11.307)
No, I'm afraid so.
Joel (22:12.296)
Yeah. mean, they, they tout, about 4.7 million people that use the site each month. I think that's a little bit of an exaggeration. That's a little bit of, you know, eat, eat your own dog food. But, we know that the job board business is a hard business. I mean, we talk about the public companies on a regular basis, the same companies that aren't public have to be feeling the same pressure where it's talent.com.
Lieven (22:19.921)
Hmm.
Lieven (22:27.377)
It's hard to check.
Joel (22:39.602)
Welcome to the jungle job and talent. Like they're all, think being challenged in this environment. We'll see how they come out.
Chad (22:45.048)
It almost feels like these these guys are trying to be a muse. And I mean, you know, the muse in the US where it's more media, it's more media, but it is job board and helping companies, you know, pretty much create their own portfolio of of of content that goes along with the job, yada, yada, yada. Yeah. And I don't know. I just I think as a creative agency, those are great. But unfortunately, you already have a bunch of creative agencies that are already there that have huge portfolios.
Joel (22:50.056)
Yeah, Warm and fuzzy.
Chad (23:14.752)
So, and there are all these other job boards that are out there in the first place that the agencies don't need to buy. I mean, they don't need to own, right? They just buy. So it seems incredibly redundant, unfortunately, especially in the US. They're coming to the US, a much different market than the UK or Europe overall. I think that's a huge mistake.
Joel (23:21.811)
Yeah.
Joel (23:32.105)
Yeah.
I was trying to remember Chad, if I had ever seen welcome to the jungle at a conference and I don't think I have, have you? All right. All right.
Chad (23:39.342)
I don't think so, no.
Lieven (23:41.604)
No, me neither.
Joel (23:46.384)
Alright, no more jungle for us. Let's take a quick break and we'll play a little Hoodie-a-rather.
Chad (23:46.509)
Not this time.
Chad (23:56.714)
Okay, did you see the picture that I sent to you from the street food place here in Portugal? Yeah, it's called I poppy.
Joel (24:02.958)
the I poppy. Yes, I did. I'm sorry. It was, it was too early in the morning for me to comment. What it was it a product. got food food truck called I poppy and it was a Y poppy. All right. I love it. Just, just, just for that. I'm to play it again. All right, boys, you know, the game let's play a little who'd you rather. This is where I talk about two startups that have raised money recently and you guys.
Chad (24:11.232)
I know it was just a food, food truck, food truck. Yep. Street food. Yep. Hi, Poppy.
Lieven (24:22.673)
You
Joel (24:32.104)
compare and contrast and tell us who you'd rather. That's right. Who'd you write? Let's get to our first contest and it's Mackie, a Paris based conversational AI solution. They've secured 26 million euros, a lot of money in series a funding led by blossom capital. Mackie's AI agents promise to automate 80 % of the HR process, reducing time to hire by three X and cutting turnover by 20%. The funding will help drive global.
expansion and you guessed it, US market growth. is Mackie. Next up and in this corner, have Talent Mapper, a London based HR tech company. They've secured 2 million pounds in funding. The company's platform is trained on 675 million career histories to analyze employee skills, aiding and reducing recruitment and training costs and promoting equal career opportunities. The investment will be used to enhance the platform.
Chad (25:04.096)
Mmm.
Joel (25:30.022)
expand the team and target new sectors like financial and professional services. is Talent Mapper. So Chad, you're up. Who'd you rather Mackie or Talent Mapper?
Chad (25:39.476)
I'm going to start with talent mapper. So internal mobility, strategic workforce planning, mentoring, succession planning and career mapping. They're all, all immensely important in building teams and stabilizing a company's talent lifecycle period. Period. The problem is that I don't believe most companies think that any of these are top tier problems for them.
because they are sucked into the minutiae of the day to day instead of being in a leader's mindset, right? Not to mention a lot of consulting companies do this anyway. So they're just gonna go ahead and push it off, project-based stuff. Why do I need a platform for that? Mackey, on the other hand, are focused on a buzzword that's stronger than AI right now. Wanna take a crack at it? You wanna take a crack at it? Agentic, agentic, right?
Lieven (26:23.375)
Yep.
Yay!
Joel (26:27.346)
I can't say.
Chad (26:28.726)
Why? Because the AI will be bundled into a specific area of expertise, into agents per se, who perform specific duties alongside their human counterparts. So imagine a recruiter interacting with the candidate and then switching their disposition in the CRM or the ATS. An agent can then take over and start online, you know, the on-site interview scheduling or even the onboarding process, right? That stuff,
that gets companies hot and heavy and a little wet, right? They want that. I want that. Who'd I'd rather? I'd rather me some Mackie. Mackie all day, baby.
Joel (27:11.508)
All right. That's one for Mackie. Uh, I'm a little confused about what Mackie does. I'm glad you sort of encapsulated everything and framed it for me. Uh, they say on their website that they're a quote conversational AI agent for enterprises. And then they go on to really just talk about how they're an assessment tool for employers. So I'm not quite sure what they are. I thought maybe they're poor man's paradox. And then I think, maybe they're like a test gorilla kind of thing. Um, I think the
confusion is a bad thing for marketing. And frankly, their marketing and the lack of focus for me in that space says a lot. Their copyright date on their footer is 2022. Like I know that's a small thing, but if your tech team can't update the date for three years on the footer of your website, to me, that is a symptom of a bigger problem that your tech team sucks and or they don't care.
and or both. They have super few followers on all social medias. They haven't posted on X since 2022. somebody, the lights are on, but nobody's home in Mackey from what I can tell. So let's go to, let's go to Talent Mapper. I will admit they're both on a really good wave. Agente, Commerce, like they're all the buzzwords at Mackey are there. I also think internal mobility is a nice little wave to be on. Companies are really concerned about
Uh, workers being engaged, new research, uh, a new study from Gallup came out saying that only 31 % of workers are engaged. 17 % of workers are actively disengaged. I'm not sure what that means. Are they just stealing the post-it notes on purpose? Uh, I don't know. Um, but, companies like recruiting is expensive. Companies hate it. They, they want to get more out of the people that they have. They want to keep the people they have. want higher retention. So I think talent mapper.
Lieven (28:52.432)
You
Chad (28:53.87)
They're taking naps.
Joel (29:06.43)
does tap into that. think it's a pretty good name, talentmapper.com. It kind of says what it does. It's a bigger market. You have more people concerned about their current workforce than they are maybe recruiting. I think there's going to be greater demand to keep the employees that they already have. And lastly, a small thing, but there's just more attentiveness to the details at TalentMapper. And to me, that says a lot. So for me, I'm going to go TalentMapper.
As my hoot you rather, which means leaving is going to break a tie. What you got leaving.
Lieven (29:36.901)
Hmm.
Chad (29:37.383)
I gotta make a note real quick to change the date in our footer. Go ahead.
Joel (29:42.194)
We don't have 32 million euros in the bank. If we did, I promise the date would be...
Chad (29:46.188)
I just said I gotta make a note.
Lieven (29:49.841)
But maybe if we, if the three of us would put all the money together now. Anyways.
Joel (29:56.18)
2022 is the foot, come on man. Sorry.
Lieven (30:00.369)
But you said they weren't posting on X since 2022. That's a good thing, not posting on X.
Joel (30:06.61)
All their social suck. just, I just pointed out X. LinkedIn's all right, but they should just focus on LinkedIn. Like most startups, like just pick one and make it, make it good.
Chad (30:10.764)
His favorite.
Lieven (30:10.821)
No. No. I'm-
I'm going to, by the way, leave X today since the whole show yesterday X for me is it will be I'm an X user but
Joel (30:25.982)
Well, XX user, he's double X, not quite triple X, not triple X.
Chad (30:26.286)
And xx.
Lieven (30:29.541)
Double X, double X. Na na, naughty, But I'm with chat on this one. I think Talent Mapper might be the best company. You're totally right, y'all. But in the end, it's all about the right momentum. And agentics today are where you need to be. And if Mackie is able to do what they're claiming, then I'd rather be in Mackie's camp. And by the way, I'm working on the
Chad (30:29.55)
Join the club, Levin. It's warm out here. It's warm out here.
Joel (30:34.012)
Peace.
Lieven (30:58.065)
Recruitment Congress for 2026. We talked about it. I think Agendix will be the main thing. It will be the main team. I'm digging into it right now.
Chad (31:00.642)
Ooh, say more. Yeah.
Joel (31:04.308)
Chad (31:08.462)
That's right. Yes!
Joel (31:10.332)
That's two votes for Mackie one for talent mapper. All right. Let's get to, let's get, let's get everyone as a winner. Everyone is a winner for sure. All right. Let's get to a sick leave detectives. it's not quite the Gestapo since we have a Nazi theme today. but Germany's rising sick leave is straining its economy. The increase in absenteeism, major problem apparently, has boosted business for private investigators.
Chad (31:13.294)
Everyone's a winner on chat and cheese.
Lieven (31:16.482)
Yeah.
Chad (31:27.928)
Not yet.
Joel (31:39.838)
who check on suspected fraudulent sick leaves. Chad, as someone who only gets sick when Levin invites us to the Moulin Rouge in Paris, what are your thoughts? Should we side story that one?
Chad (31:47.981)
I know.
Lieven (31:48.024)
Yes, chat.
Chad (31:53.642)
yeah, we should definitely side story. Okay, everybody. So we were unleashed Paris. And yeah, couple of nights I probably went too hard. And people were getting sick at the end of that. I think my buddy Chris long actually had gotten sick too. And we spend way too much time together. That's a problem. But yeah, no, I got sick and I didn't get a chance to go to the Moulin Rouge, which I love. I love I think I heard land with leaving was crying in the corner because because I did I just
Lieven (31:55.921)
You
Joel (32:21.662)
haha
Chad (32:23.212)
But yes, I'll be there next time no matter what leaving, but I didn't want to get you sick. I didn't want to get you sick.
Lieven (32:24.785)
But your charming, your charming wife did come. Yeah, so we didn't miss you that much.
Chad (32:31.288)
She's amazing. mean, she, she represents that. It's hard not to, hard not to miss me when she's around for God's sake.
Lieven (32:41.137)
You
Joel (32:41.288)
If Chad is, if Chad is passing on tits and ass, he's really sick. Like he's not, he's not faking it, but, this is apparently a pretty big issue in Germany. Chad, any of your thoughts on absenteeism gone awry?
Chad (32:45.87)
You
Lieven (32:45.999)
Yeah.
Chad (32:54.098)
Yeah, so this is a very interesting topic because nobody sees the Germans as a lazy society. I mean, it's quite the contrary. And you can always find fringe cases of a person who once stayed home to finish home renovations that will live on an office lore forever. Right. And but but I mean, these are these are fringe cases to for the most part. But the article makes pretty much the great sick seem like a concerted effort. But Klaus.
Reinhardt, you can't get more German than that, Klaus Reinhardt, president of the German Medical Association, sees increased infections as the main reason for the record number of sick people. Quote, playing sick does not happen on a large scale, end quote. So what Klaus is actually saying here, paraphrasing kids, is that these people are not colluding in the great sick movement, right? So plus,
Joel (33:47.636)
Ugh.
Chad (33:49.802)
In the German culture, they understand the math of being sick, which we don't get in the U.S. If you're sick and you come into the office, you probably infect two to three more people, maybe even more. Right. Well, that makes instead of one person out sick, you got four or five, who knows how many that are out. Right. So Germans are encouraged to stay home as it's best for the business. I was reading one article where one company gave their employees six
Joel (34:08.787)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (34:19.764)
weeks of sick sick leave six weeks. So this is something that's common and they want them to get the job done. They want them to get their sickness out and they want them to get back to work. So I think this is kind of like a confluence of just shit and things happening in Germany. Maybe we'll call it the German flu. I don't know. Yeah.
Joel (34:40.756)
Slow news day, maybe. Slow news day. And you wonder why Germany's in a recession. For God's sakes, we've got absenteeism run amok in Germany. So German workers average, they average 15.1 days of sick leave last year. That's up from 11.1 in 2021. That's a study from DeSantis.
Lieven (34:42.661)
Hmm.
Joel (35:06.386)
You apparently can get a note from your doctor over the phone, which apparently is automated in some places. So we can't be shocked that people are taking sick days when all you have to do is say like, does is mine. I, Algon is whatever I'm trying. I'm trying to do German, but can I said something about my eyes? so, it's no shock that people are abusing the system. I don't know if it's a government system. I don't know if it's just the healthcare. mean, maybe leaving who's a neighbor.
Lieven (35:15.601)
Thank you.
Lieven (35:23.801)
Hehehehe
Yes?
Joel (35:36.328)
can shed some light on this, it's obviously going to be a thing if you make it so easy and give people so many sick days through the year like Chad mentioned. Leven, what's your take on, yes, and German should be the last ones. If Germany's falling apart, there's no hope for Europe.
Lieven (35:53.233)
But thank God Spain and Luxembourg, Spain and what is it, Italy are taking over now. They're leading us. Portugal indeed. No, but I agree with Joel and I checked the surrounding countries, number of sex days in the surrounding countries and Germany actually is high. If you look at the Netherlands, there's about 12 sex days on average. And Luxembourg, did you even know Luxembourg is a country? Do you know Luxembourg? Okay.
Joel (35:57.884)
In Greece, yeah.
Chad (35:58.158)
Portugal, no, Portugal.
Joel (36:21.278)
Yes.
Lieven (36:22.309)
Luxembourg is one of the smallest countries. Very rich, mostly bankers. Anyway, so they have about 11, six days. So 15 is, if you look at it, 15 is a lot. But then again, indeed, it's like socially unacceptable these days to sneeze during a meeting. So when you're feeling ill, you are obliged to stay at home. It's a corporate policy. So the moment you got a cold 10 years ago,
Chad (36:23.33)
very rich. Yeah.
Lieven (36:50.989)
Nobody would stay at home for having a cold. You would just take your handkerchief and feel miserable during the meeting. But now people stay at home. And of course, it's kind of easy to stay at home. It's fun. And people got used to it, staying, feeling a bit ill and staying at home. But there is, it's not only that, there is also, and that's factor is long COVID and a significant part of the population actually still isn't as they used to be. They aren't feeling as they used to be.
Apparently it's a lot and I don't have numbers about that. But there are plenty of reasons why the sex days are getting up. But in Germany, they're getting up fast. And the weird thing is, if there's one country in Europe where people really are into privacy, then it's Germany. People will get really angry if you take your phone and make a movie on the streets and someone is, you're filming accidentally someone, they got angry.
Joel (37:38.238)
Mm-hmm.
Lieven (37:48.187)
They don't like it. So privacy is a very big thing. So sending a private detective must be kind of the biggest insult you can get. So I think for a company doing that, it's like saying, okay, we want to fire you, but we give you the opportunity to, to leave yourself. I don't think people would appreciate it. Definitely not in Germany. So to all those companies, I don't think our companies would do this, but I'll check.
Joel (37:49.47)
Hmm.
Chad (37:55.716)
yeah.
Joel (38:13.15)
Germany is Germany is out of control and what better way to end the show than a joke With a German bit of flavor. Alright guys, what do you call an angry German? What do you call an angry German?
Chad (38:27.148)
German?
Joel (38:30.164)
A sauerkraut. A sauerkraut. Boys as always, it's been fun. We out.
Lieven (38:31.665)
great.
Chad (38:38.67)
We out.
Lieven (38:39.096)
Way out.
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