The Chad & Cheese Podcast Does Europe takes a wild ride through the continent’s hiring jungle—dodging legal landmines, outdated staffing giants, and AI-powered upstarts along the way.
Chad, fresh from a Champions League pilgrimage, joins Joel and Lieven to break down JobIndex’s showdown with Google, Randstad’s midlife crisis, and why GDPR is like a 19th-century train system (yes, really). With spicy debates, bold predictions, and a dash of humor, this episode asks: Can Europe innovate without regulation holding it back? And will Randstad sink or finally swipe right on the future?
Tune in to find out!
PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Joel (00:34.862)
Three guys still figuring out which Spice Girls we want to impregnate. You were listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast Does Europe. I'm your cohost, Joel Parting, like it's 19, sorry, 1899 Cheeseman.
Chad (00:49.933)
This is Chad, what the actual fuck is happening around this place? So watch.
Lieven (00:54.926)
And I'm Lieven "Boycotting all that's American except Cheddar and Cheese" Van Nieuwenhuyze.
Joel (00:59.778)
we're tear free leaving so it's all good on this episode job index settles Ron Stott stalls and who'd you rather let's do this
Chad (01:14.099)
so European, I'm dressed exactly like Levin.
Lieven (01:17.987)
You
Joel (01:19.426)
I missed the memo on the sprockets outfit today. You guys need turtlenecks, maybe a mock turtle, something. Yeah, make it really totally your... there's the football scarf. The football scarf.
Chad (01:22.477)
Sprockets.
Joel (01:36.824)
That hasn't quite caught on in America, the sports scarf.
Chad (01:36.947)
sexy that's I don't think it will I don't think it will
Lieven (01:41.028)
No? If you go to let's say the American football or to baseball you don't have scarves? Okay...
Chad (01:46.283)
No hats, jerseys. Yeah. Yeah. Or more or more jerseys.
Joel (01:46.294)
No, we have hats, jerseys. Yeah, no scarves. I like it. I like it. And no big flags and fireworks in the stands usually. Just beer tossing and mosh pitting or something. I don't know. So what's going on in Europe? I haven't been watching the news. Is there any headlines out of Europe? I've missed it. Chad's had a great time in Europe last week or so.
Lieven (01:51.28)
Okay, it could be big business selling scarves. Everyone needs one. No? No fighting either.
Okay.
Chad (02:08.023)
Wish I was still there. I did. Yeah, I did. Well, leaving, talk to us. What's happened over? What's the sentiment? What's the sentiment?
Joel (02:19.022)
Should we just go right to the jugular hair?
Chad (02:24.653)
you
Lieven (02:25.442)
The only the only headlines we have are American headlines. We don't like him Joel, we don't like him. No. So I'm going to give Donald Trump some advice on diplomatic advice. I think he should make Ukraine the 51st state and leave Canada alone and then
Ukraine would be part of NATO all at once and you have access to the minerals and Russia would be happy because their biggest assets will become the president of Ukraine. And Europe will keep its free healthcare and we can go back to sleep and everything will be normal again. So.
Joel (03:01.346)
Governor, Governor, Zalinski, Governor, Luzinski.
Lieven (03:04.218)
Governor Zelensky
Joel (03:07.734)
huh. Is this a real movement or is this a leave an original announced here on the show?
Lieven (03:12.869)
I think we should start lobbying. It's not a real movement yet.
Joel (03:17.61)
Okay. It's the Levin. You heard it here first. NX Ukraine is the 51st state. All Levin's idea.
Lieven (03:22.498)
Yeah, it was all my idea. Yeah, Tuesday 11th.
Chad (03:27.021)
Things are shifting, Things are shifting. mean, we're looking at Tesla tanking in Europe, Norwegian companies refusing to refuel American ships, Dutch pension funds sold $575 million in Tesla shares. mean, there's this, I mean, we're rethinking alliances and I don't like the way that the US is rethinking them. I'm not a fan, guys.
Joel (03:30.701)
you
Lieven (03:42.852)
Yep.
Joel (03:52.994)
Man, if I can't get served in Paris, there's a problem. Can I go to Europe as an American now leaving, or am going to be Kung Fu fighting in the streets of Berlin?
Lieven (04:03.984)
First you'll have to tell how thankful you are that they want to serve you and please please wear a suit and then you might be served.
Joel (04:06.99)
Okay.
Joel (04:11.97)
But can it be the Trump black suit with the red tie? Can I do like, can I look like Trump in a suit or do I have to go European with a nice, a nice, a nice Hugo boss or a nice Italian suit? Okay.
Chad (04:18.925)
I wouldn't go there. Yeah, I wouldn't go
Lieven (04:20.514)
I think to try, yeah, maybe the Italian approach, yeah, but more elegant, not the very big broad American suit thing.
Joel (04:32.174)
Those Italian suits fit a little tight on me, Leaven. I don't know. I need that JCPenney Joseph A. Bank suit. That's the one that fits me. Especially has a little flex in it. You've seen these flex suits for the elbows. Yeah, I need a little room to get in my suit. Jeez.
Lieven (04:35.106)
I imagine. I prefer swim fit, but...
Yeah.
Chad (04:45.501)
Mm-hmm. Little flex.
Lieven (04:47.576)
I'm sure as long as it's tailor-made, it will be all fine.
Joel (04:50.958)
I fear that this is going to be a trend on the show for a while. I'll even the, the Trump shout out. Sadly, Yep.
Chad (04:57.665)
I don't, I don't like it. I don't like it, especially when I'm over there, right? I hate even more when I come back over here. So yeah, I'm just not a fan. Let's just, let's, let's have leaving diplomacy. Let's, let's do leaving diplomacy. All right. All right. All right.
Lieven (05:09.4)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (05:13.614)
All right, Chad, drag us out of this misery. Okay.
Chad (05:16.929)
I don't know that I can't. yeah. So last week, last couple of weeks, I was in the Netherlands right next door to, to leave, leave in and, got to give a shout out. did a ton of stuff, but I definitely got to give a shout out to our friends here. John over at the intelligence group. That's right. for, taking me and my friends to champions league match in fine Nord, it's right there in, in Rotterdam for you kids looking, looking for Fiannard at the cube.
cushy leather seats, beer, food, the works, man. So play that beautiful bean footage. You can see all the fun. Yeah.
Joel (05:51.387)
Real question real quick on the scarf thing. So it's sponsored by them, but are they the sponsor of the team or do they just randomly make scarves?
Chad (05:56.556)
Yes.
Chad (06:00.839)
no, they are actually intelligence group is a sponsor of the team. Yes. has his business seats, the entire time he's at every match. And yeah. So yeah, I got the cool fine word scarf with the intelligence group on the other side and play, play the coolness.
Joel (06:15.534)
Cool, cool, live show at one of the future game, which looks like a good time if you're not.
Chad (06:24.459)
Remember, this is Champions League. This is big stuff against Inter Milan, right? So Italy is coming to the Netherlands for a fight.
Joel (06:35.294)
I get knocked down. So what's with the, there's a dude like ready to fight. that the mascot? So instead of like a fuzzy frog or something, it's a guy that's looking to fight.
Lieven (06:37.466)
Thank
Chad (06:47.021)
So the dude, so the dude with the black eye and he was all beat up and whatnot. Apparently he's a famous Dutch guy who was a street fighter. So they are again, they're fighters. not, they're not putting up with the bullshit. You can't bring that red tie over there, Joel. Can't do it. Now unless it says, unless it says fine or.
Joel (06:48.75)
Uh-huh.
Lieven (07:04.794)
you
Joel (07:06.048)
I won't do it. I'm bringing.
I'm wearing all Canadian all the time when I'm in Europe now. All Canadian all the time.
Chad (07:13.197)
Yeah.
Just say sorry a lot. Say sorry a lot.
Joel (07:20.526)
All right. My shout out, my shout out goes out to, well, you may not remember, you may not know it because Google deleted it from their calendar. it was international women's day, recently. of course Europe, nobody does, does, protesting and marching like Europeans do. So, in Paris, apparently a staggering 120,000 people, joined in, over 150 demonstrations across France. Organizers estimated that a quarter of a million people.
took part and of course in pure French fashion, a lot of topless women were roaming the streets with flags painted on their chest with swastikas. Nobody protests quite like the French and I'm here for it and they get my shout out for the week. Shout out to the French protesters.
Chad (08:12.141)
French do wine well and rebellion.
Joel (08:15.662)
And not necessarily in that order
Lieven (08:17.188)
What?
Alright.
Chad (08:24.222)
areas.
Joel (08:26.446)
All right, let's talk law here. Job Index and Dansky Mediae have settled their case against Google, withdrawing their appeal against Google for jobs. The settlement terms were not disclosed, but both parties expressed satisfaction with the resolution. In case you missed it, Job Index filed a formal complaint with the EU Commission back in 2022 requesting that it initiate a case against Google for abusing its dominant market.
position, Chad, big deal, little deal or no deal, your thoughts.
Chad (08:59.117)
I mean, we talked about how the case was severely flawed in the first place and I would speculate that the price of the settlement had to go down dramatically since job index was appealing their loss in the first place. So Google probably threw them a bone and said, now just shut the fuck up. I don't think this is a big deal. I think this might be an opportunity for Google to pretty much, you know, put job index in the rear view mirror.
Joel (09:26.36)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (09:26.837)
And then also prospectively quell, some others who might come up and, and, and try to throw the same kind of flawed bullshit at them. but I think the funniest thing that I heard after the news came out, it's total rumor, was that the job index was hurrying and starting to, to actually check out how they could get in the Google for jobs schema. It could be a total rumor, but I think, but I think with the revenue issues that job index has been having, it, it could be a thing. It could be a thing. They might be on Google for jobs before you know it.
Joel (09:46.955)
huh.
Joel (09:54.126)
Could be a thing. Yep, yep.
So in case you missed it, job index also reported a 5.3 % decrease in revenue for the second half of 2022. Could it be that the decrease in money had some connection to the decrease in traffic? Traffic that they could have gotten from Google for jobs? I don't know. I don't know. me, call me a conspiracy theorist, but that may have had something to do with it. Yeah. When this thing broke, we were like, you don't have to be in Google, bro. Like you can just tell them we don't want to be in the index. So to, to,
Chad (10:06.093)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (10:28.888)
to have this lawsuit against some sort of competition, felt really European as an American. really felt like let's stick it to the American company. Let's make some money, which probably let's, let's, I think that's probably what happened. Google went to the couch cushions. got a few million duckets to throw at this company. and then it was, then it was finished. I think the big question going forward,
With the changes, if you've been watching the news, you've seen some changes about America sort of leaving Europe in a big way, which has caused Europe to sort of get on its feet, figure out what we're going to do. And part of that of what I've heard is leaving is squinching his eyes, which means maybe I'm wrong here, but I'll let him chime in afterwards is that regulation stifles innovation.
Lieven (11:11.909)
No, no.
Joel (11:17.588)
And I'm hearing a lot of things out of Europe that says we need to be innovators again. We need to be creating companies, not regulating the companies that are already successful. So I want to know if this case is a really small example of Europe stepping away from regulation, less encouragement of that and really focusing on how do we innovate? How do we grow companies? How do we keep money here? and do that. So I think Europe needs innovation.
And my hope is that this case is sort of indicative of companies less let's sue Google and Facebook and everybody else and more let's innovate and make great companies here in Europe. Leave in your thoughts.
Lieven (12:03.194)
I wonder why there is a settlement. mean, Google won and I don't think Job Index was going to appeal anyway. Okay, and then Google came to a settlement, they didn't say it was a financial settlement. It could also be a settlement like, okay, now stop it and we'll leave you alone as well. That's a settlement too. But I wonder if it is a financial settlement, I guess it will be in the financial statements next year. So we should put it in our agenda and check if there are...
Chad (12:10.827)
They did. They peeled.
Lieven (12:32.171)
are some numbers showing up. I'm really curious about the amount because they live in a different world and job in Google. So maybe they got their 5 % back after all. I'm not sure. Probably not. I don't think Google is going to throw money away, especially now with ChachiPT taking, I think going to be taking a big part of the income from Google in the coming years.
Joel (12:59.662)
What are your thoughts on Europe becoming a more innovative government, encouraging innovation, stripping away some regulations and red tape? Is it your opinion that that is where Europe is going or is it less so from your perspective?
Lieven (13:01.176)
So I wonder, I wonder.
Lieven (13:16.012)
Yeah, maybe, maybe that's the good thing about America bullying us all right now, that we're going to stop being extremely woke and just try to be a bit more pragmatic. And okay, this looks like a nice law, but do we really need it because we have plenty of laws. So maybe stop adding laws and work a bit harder. So this might be a good outcome, but still we prefer to way we have free healthcare, you have military, everyone was happy. I think we should go back to.
Joel (13:36.067)
Mm-hmm.
Lieven (13:46.192)
to that moment.
Joel (13:47.264)
everyone or every european was happy
Chad (13:47.457)
at better.
Lieven (13:50.606)
Boy, you liked having the military?
Joel (13:51.885)
you
Chad (13:54.485)
I think the narrative around if there's regulation, there's no innovation. It was just total bullshit. I think that is set up by capitalists because they want, they don't want government to tell them what to do. But if you take a look at, and I had a great example this week, I was watching AI and safety, right? And they were talking about railroads and how railroads in the United States, only about 30 % of them at one time actually made it to their destinations.
Lieven (13:59.841)
Mm-hmm. That's true.
Chad (14:23.181)
because it was so bad from a safety standpoint. Then the United States came in and they started to regulate. had air brakes. They had all these different things from a safety standpoint that they had to use. And it wasn't just about getting freight from one point to the next. So railroads became much safer and the innovation that we got out of those railroads because of that actually was better for the country. It was better for the companies.
So I think trying to put those two together, regulation stifles innovation. I think that's just a bullshit way of saying that we don't want you in our backyard auditing us.
Lieven (15:06.328)
Yeah, I agree. But sometimes regulation just isn't, it isn't helping. Like European AI acts will probably give us a big disadvantage compared to people who don't have it. GDPR is just cumbersome. So the companies who are correct, they use GDPR in correct way and the companies who are not, they still don't. So, I mean, sometimes legislation is just a law and it's
It's kind of creating barriers which we don't want.
Joel (15:35.468)
Yeah. And I think sometimes optics comes to play as well. If investors have the opinion that Europe is not a good place to spend money because of regulations and red tape, then you're losing out on money that's going, that's staying in America or going to Asia and other places. So optics matters sometimes too.
Lieven (15:46.521)
Hmm.
Chad (15:51.917)
think it's harder to spend money in Europe because you're looking at a bunch of different countries, right? In one big mass, we're in the US, you're looking at, you take a look at a comparison, it's pretty much the same, a bunch of different countries, but they're just all united under the same English, right, culture to some extent. So I mean, it's harder to spend money in Europe. I don't think it's less innovative in Europe. As we take a look at a lot of the startups that are coming out of Europe, they're pretty fucking innovative.
Lieven (16:00.56)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (16:09.774)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (16:22.245)
and with regard to, to GDPR, mean, yeah, some of it's kind of a pain in the ass, but at the end of the day, will it also start to change the thought process on who owns what data and will that have long-term effects, good effects or bad effects on, on, on technology companies.
Lieven (16:42.797)
I totally agree and I feel privacy is extremely important. Problems of course, these laws should be on a global scale, which today is impossible.
Chad (16:46.029)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (16:52.107)
No, yeah.
Joel (16:54.114)
Follow the money kids.
Joel (16:59.022)
All right, let's take, bring it to your, let's say, take a quick break. Take a breath of all this Trump nonsense and talk a little bit more business.
Lieven (16:59.13)
Follow the money and bring it to Europe.
Chad (17:01.965)
I'm coming. I'm coming.
Lieven (17:03.824)
You're welcome, Chet.
Lieven (17:10.707)
Hmm.
Chad (17:12.247)
Joel (17:17.486)
All right, Chad used to work there as it Ronstadt, Randstad, like what is the exact pronunciation?
Chad (17:24.587)
mean, if you're saying it from the Midwestern accent, it's Ronstadt or Randstad, right? But it's, mean, as you start to deal with the Dutch, it's more of the Ronstadt. Yeah.
Joel (17:29.794)
wrong stuff.
Lieven (17:32.75)
Rammstadt.
Joel (17:36.792)
Ron Ron stock. Well, I can't roll my R so I'm screwed there. I'll do the best I can here guys. All right. In an opinion piece from our friend, GJ Vostor. he outlines how Ron start is facing challenges despite a thriving labor market. While the company's market share is shrinking, competitors are thriving by focusing on specialized niches, leveraging technology and maintaining strong local presences. Ron Stott's attempts to adapt such as acquisitions and leadership changes have yet to reverse its decline.
Lieven (17:37.252)
and stats.
Joel (18:06.986)
See monster highlighting the need for a strategic shift. We already mentioned that you used to work there, Chad. So I assume you have some thoughts on GJ's opinion of Ronstadt.
Chad (18:19.341)
Yeah, I personally think Ronstadt is going through an identity crisis. Are they a staffing company or are they a tech company? The answer to me is yes. This is a problem they are trying to choose. And the answer is Ronstadt needs. And when I say need, I mean it's vital for leadership to understand that the aspects of staffing will be an app.
They need to be creating global partnerships with platforms they can leverage and then, prospectively, buy, maybe. But platforms like Remote Deal, Velocity Global, Oyster, Atlas, and other EOR companies will become tomorrow's version of staffing. So Ronstadt is taking kind of like today's version of BlackBerry, you know, where they denied smartphones for the future. They've got to understand they've got to move forward. So yes.
Ronsod has an innovation fund to keep an eye on the market, but where did that help them in the failed acquisition of Monster? Seriously, you have a leadership team that understands traditional staffing in a non-traditional world. You can't adapt technology to your business. You need to transform your business into a platform. And I think the hardest example of this is job.com, where they've demonstrated over the years that they haven't been able to make it work.
Job.com's vision was to consolidate staffing agencies and pull them into the job.com platform and then change the model where the commissions were anywhere from 15 to 20 % per transaction down to 2 % per transaction. So if you slim down headcount become a cheaper option and squeeze out the competition, you can pretty much at that point start to raise that 2 % to 5%, maybe get it back to 15%, but it's so damn hard.
Joel (20:08.651)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (20:11.117)
to stand by and watch 15 or 20 % contracts go to 2%. So this is a hard transition to pull off as demonstrated by the real life canary in the AI mind, know, job.com. It's going to be hard for Ron style. They've got a shit ton of cash. Um, will that be enough? No fucking clue. I think leaving knows a hell of a lot better than I do.
Joel (20:37.292)
Leaving what you got on Ron Stott.
And say it correctly for us, because I know you can. OK, love it.
Lieven (20:41.136)
I'm not sure if I know.
Randstad. Randstad, yeah. I really like the article because I work for a competitor of Randstad, but how's of HR? I know, I know, and we were mentioned in a good way. we are the mid-sized companies taking market share from the leader. But I think it's largely accurate, the article, but it's sometimes a bit opinionated. And I'm not going to say I'm objective, but just my few thoughts.
Joel (20:53.198)
and you were mentioned in the article.
Lieven (21:14.032)
So they're losing ground to smaller agile competitors. That's true. Rundstats isn't small and they're not agile. And in this business, that's a problem. that's a fact. But a bigger problem to me is that they are afraid of technology. You might remember in 2016, they launched Ploy. And Ploy was, when I looked at it, I thought, damn, that's a good idea. They made a marketplace. It's actually an app for the
the catering business mostly to hire people immediately. You had a pool of people, had a pool of restaurants and I need someone to wash my dishes because the dishwasher is sick and you could hire someone to... And totally automated. And I looked at Ploy and I thought, okay, it could be better, but it's not a bad tool. It's actually pretty innovative. And one year later, and I wasn't even working at Haasevichard then in 2017,
Accent, one of our companies, launched a competition inside the of HR. And they asked, what could kill Accent? Come up with an idea that is so brilliant that it could kill Accent. And Accent then had 300 million euros of revenue. So not that big, but not small either. And they came up with something which really resembled Ploy, but better. It was like Ploy 2.0. They based their ideas probably on Ploy, and they improved it. And they launched it. But
Chad (22:32.204)
Mm.
Lieven (22:36.88)
Ploy had a first mover advantage. They already existed for one year, but they never grow. Why didn't they grow? They were afraid. The people in their offices, they didn't want it. They say, I'm a digital platform. They're going to take away our jobs. going to, we don't like it. And you better stop using this. And they didn't dare to promote it. And House of HR just thought, great, we have a new tool which could finish Accent. Let's launch it before the competition does. And now Ploy has 100 million revenue.
Sorry, not Ploy, Ploy is dead. Now Jobs has 100 million euros revenue a few years later and totally automated. So that's great. And then there's Monster, Randstad bought Monster. It was like a safe bet. And I think it was 2015, 2016 also, something like that. 327 million euros. And back then I thought what does Randstad know that I don't know? Buying Monster, outdated technology, and it was going down already. Apparently they didn't know.
Chad (23:29.005)
You
Lieven (23:35.34)
So they've been losing money on it. The moment they started losing money at the moment they bought it. And Rundstadt and technology hasn't been the best match, I think. And they've been afraid of it. So in this business, you have a problem now. But I think something that should be more nuanced is they faced a total of 260 million in impairments and adjustments, meaning it's mostly a one-time expense.
Joel (23:46.05)
Mm-hmm.
Lieven (24:04.048)
Had a problem with the value of Goodwill in Sweden and the United Kingdom. They had 139 million of reassessing and adjusting from Carrierebilder and Monster. So these are one shots and they lost a bit of money, but now it's gone. It's out of the box. I think they should be more worried about the decline in revenue. If you lose 5 % revenue in this market, then you have a problem. And this is something which will only get bigger, I think.
The one shots aren't that problematic. But who am I?
Joel (24:37.09)
Mm-hmm.
You're leaving. And that means, that means a lot to us.
Lieven (24:41.36)
I'm You're too kind. You're just trying to make it up to us Europeans. You American.
Joel (24:47.51)
Yeah. And continue to do that. I, I was, I was doing, doing my research on raunch dot, which I've never really done. And I gotta say like, whoo, it was, it was rough. look, this, this is an old, big, profitable investors love it. They churn out dividends.
Lieven (24:59.022)
You
Chad (25:09.805)
legacy.
Joel (25:13.134)
The stock is basically fluctuated between 20 and $40 forever. Uh, stockholders are happy. They're getting dividends. Uh, they're hiring people organically. mean, the head count is going up, uh, $8 billion market cap, like nice size. have three or four competitors like manpower, Deco, and recruit holdings. think monster was an attempt to be recruit holdings and say, Hey, we can get in this internet job thing game. And they failed and they.
To their credit, they cut bait and they were out. Like we, we do what we do. Our shareholders love it. I like, we like, this is who we are. I, I think they look at deal and remote and like, okay, whatever. were here, we were here in the nineties with, with monster and all the other up and coming sites. And we were there in the nineties and the eighties when all these disruptions have these guys are, these guys are just this big.
enterprise that goes through space. It doesn't really care. And that's just what it is, man. I, yes, do they innovate? No. Do they suck? Probably. but they are what they are, man. It's like, they're like Philip Morris. They've been making cigarettes forever. They churn out dividends. You know, they, they don't innovate, but people keep, you know, buying it. I'm not comparing cigarettes to staffing. Maybe there are different kinds of drugs there. There's not the nicotine hit that you get with staffing, but I just,
Lieven (26:21.954)
No.
Chad (26:34.017)
Hahaha
Joel (26:39.53)
They're not going to get disrupted anytime soon. They're just going to plod along like a big elephant in the jungle and just be happy with what they are from what I can see.
Lieven (26:50.53)
In the article, it also mentioned something about their CEO being not connected to the staffing industry. came from somewhere else. But that doesn't necessarily have to be a problem. mean, the best CEO in the business, of course, is Rika Koppens, our CEO. Friends and foes all agree on it. But she didn't come from the business as well. She was part, of course, of the board. So she knew about House of HR. But she came from the oil business.
and the new CEO of AccentJobs, Stan van der Voorst. He came from Adidas. Do I pronounce it right? The shoes? Adidas. He was managing director from Adidas Japan and he had a big experience in e-business selling shoes online. So this was something we wanted to be know about recruitment, but we wanted a CEO who had a different way of looking at things and it works. So with the new CEO of Randstad being
Chad (27:27.713)
Yep. Adidas.
Joel (27:29.132)
data.
Chad (27:42.359)
Mm-hmm.
Lieven (27:48.592)
from a different business, I don't see a problem, not necessarily, but he of course has to adapt and maybe that's something which isn't happening.
Joel (27:55.82)
I feel like he's going to get bored really, really fast if he was at Adidas.
Lieven (28:00.804)
Yeah.
Chad (28:00.941)
I gotta say though, for leaving, mean, you guys, again, you're trying to out-innovate yourself in the market and you're trying to pretty much out-Netflix yourself, right? You were sending DVDs in the mail, what's next? Streaming, shit, we better get streaming right, right? Where Ronstadt feels like Blockbuster. And as Joel had said, it's legacy, it's worked, it's worked forever. Question is, how long will that?
And if they're not continuing to do like you guys are and building the now jobs of tomorrow, I mean, that's something that you guys can actually fall back on. There's tech there. You've got tech that you've built that obviously, a hundred million dollars, not too bad, is actually working. Right? So being able to build those contingencies and if those contingencies actually create their own business models, you've got something to fall back on. I just don't see Ronstadt having anything to fall back on.
Um, they're a big fucking company. Maybe they don't need anything to fall back on. Oh yeah. It is. It is. They're everywhere.
Lieven (29:01.366)
They have a big brand. That's still important that they have global presence. That's also important.
Joel (29:03.33)
Yeah, huge brand. That means something.
Look, if they're the elephant, Rika is the lioness fucking shit up in the jungle. And I'd much rather talk about the lioness fucking shit up instead of the old salty crusty.
Chad (29:13.6)
You
Lieven (29:18.128)
You know, think Rannstadt should hire Elon Musk. And he just let him dog around Rannstadt and then we'd be rid of two nuisance at once. Elon would be gone and Rannstadt would be gone afterwards too. So Rannstadt do something makes make herself useful hire Elon.
Joel (29:24.32)
No.
Chad (29:32.755)
He's come in with a kitchen sink and yeah.
Joel (29:39.214)
Let's play some who'd you rather, shall we? All right, if you're new to the show, here's how it works gang. And we talk about two startups that have recently gotten money. We read a summary and of the two companies, everyone in this podcast will say who they'd rather. Guys, you ready for a little bit of who'd you rather? In this corner, we have Alpha, ALFA, a UK based AI recruitment startup who has secured
Chad (29:41.389)
Yeah.
Chad (29:59.223)
Ring it.
Joel (30:08.474)
£495,000 in funding, valuing the company at 6 million USD. The funding will help Alpha automate recruitment tasks and enable hiring managers to focus on candidate interactions. Alpha CEO Alfie, yes, Alpha's CEO is a guy named Alfie. Yeah, said quote, our AI agent is capable of a million software calls simultaneously in any language at 97 % lower cost.
Lieven (30:26.638)
That's great.
Joel (30:37.598)
than a human. that is alpha. And in this corner, the opposing one, Avery. Rotterdam-based Avery has raised 300,000 euros to address costly mis-hires, which studies show can waste up to 50,000 euros per bad hire. Avery's AI-powered platform promises to predict candidate success and validate roles, offering what it calls
a more efficient and market aligned approach. Backed by Builder Startup Studio, Avery says they serve 25 customers across Europe. That is Avery versus Alpha Chad. Who'd you rather?
Chad (31:19.329)
Since I've got my Rotterdam scarf on, fan or Rotterdam, I'm start with them. So Avery, it's kind of funny because in the press release, Avery talks about speed, right? And how speed isn't important. Fit is important. And then you watch the video on their homepage and speed is mentioned over and over and over.
Lieven (31:25.68)
Cool.
Chad (31:42.853)
It's interesting because marketing is just not clicking somewhere. Either speed counts or it doesn't count. Make up your mind, right? So let's focus on the TechEU article real quick. Founder and CEO was quoted several times in one of the quotes, using intelligence to validate roles before a single resume is screened, predicting candidate success before interviews begin and ensuring market alignment before offers go out, end quote. So...
That's called fairy dust kids. Avery apparently either has the market cornered on fairy dust, bullshit or fate or vaporware. Wait a minute. Those last two are the same. Avery does not have historical candidate performance data. So there's no way in hell they can predict shit. Now alpha.
from the website, 97 % lower cost than a human, 24-7, never stops working, that's what AI does for you, that's technology, and 10 ex-candidates interviewed. All great numbers, but even better than those numbers is Alfie. Yes, I said it, it's fucking Alfie, the wunderkind, co-founder and CEO of Alfa. The kid knows how to promote himself and the company.
While Ed, the CTO, is actually out there doing the hard work, the development stuff. So if I'm in a bar at 3 a.m. and I only have two choices and it's Avery and Alpha, Alpha looks much more sexy tonight. And I'm going home without one.
Joel (33:15.214)
All right, all right.
All right. That is, that is one of the books. All right. Chad, you know, I, you know, I love a good wave. I love a good wave. I'd rather have a bad surfer on a good wave than a good surfer on a bad wave. And the ultimate wave right now is Europe is Europe. Let's count the ways. number one, the Eurozone is outperforming growth expectations right now.
Chad (33:28.929)
He's never served. He's never served.
Chad (33:40.744)
yeah.
Chad (33:45.261)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (33:45.586)
everyone unemployed at Volkswagen can now build tanks apparently because, the defense departments are going to be in it. And yeah, that's good. sure. Sure.
Lieven (33:49.998)
Yep.
Chad (33:51.757)
Thanks, you're welcome.
Lieven (33:52.706)
And can I add something Joel? Because I like it. In Belgium, there was a really, really, really big Audi factory. And they closed it down and it's a huge, site. It's half a city. And they're going to launch a military factory there now. So they're going to use the factory in which they built Audi Q8, et cetera. And they're going to make military vehicles.
Joel (34:11.15)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (34:18.136)
Yep. Yep.
Lieven (34:19.067)
it's, it's becoming big business because we can't trust our American partners anymore. So we won't be buying your shit.
Joel (34:26.83)
So expectations are optimistic. Number two, European stocks have been beat down for many, many years, losing to the S &P 500. As of now, the S &P 500 is underperforming the Euro stocks that are there. So stockwise, money is flowing into public companies in Europe. Number three, the European Central Bank is expected to cut rates
Lieven (34:28.971)
Bye.
Joel (34:53.122)
multiple times in 2025, which means money's free. Give it to companies. Let's grow, baby. Let's grow. Let's grow. Let's grow. And number four is we've already talked about the uncertainty in the U S in other words, what the fuck are we doing is driving hedge funds and institutional investors into Europe where there's a much more stable environment. if we can say that. So for those four reasons, in short,
Chad (35:07.885)
the story.
Joel (35:21.514)
Europeans under evaluation improving fundamentals and uncertainties in America means that I am calling for a menage a trois. I'm going to do both of them. I'm doing both. I'd rather both these companies because I love a good wave, Chad. I love a good wave. That's right. Leaving.
Lieven (35:34.628)
I
Lieven (35:41.274)
Thank you.
Chad (35:42.763)
the wave of Europe. I do.
Lieven (35:45.936)
In that case Joel, you can have mine because I don't want any of them. No, I'm sure, I'm serious. I think Alpha is interesting and I like the name Alfie, but it reminds me of a television series when I was really young, in the 90s, end of the 80s. Alf, the extraterrestrial, whatever. Okay, the problem with Alpha is it's extremely easy to copy.
Joel (35:52.462)
Yeah
Chad (36:00.109)
healthy health.
Joel (36:06.062)
as a movie too,
Chad (36:07.685)
yeah, Alf.
Joel (36:09.816)
Well, Alfie and Alf different, but go ahead.
Lieven (36:15.95)
And I would never invest in something which is that easy to copy. And the problem with Avery is it's not sexy and we like things being sexy, but I think you don't need Avery to avoid bad hires. mean, AI is automating everything, which gives us time to do our due diligence when hiring people and just do your fucking job.
I was the right person. That's what we do. It's we are in the staffing business. We don't need a specific company to do that for us. It's our job. We've been doing it for tens of years. decades, decades since the, for example, since the 1960s even. So I'm okay. Now they're going down, but that's a different story. But, I don't know. I don't want alpha to use the copy. I don't want Avery because I just don't need them.
Joel (36:51.074)
decades.
Lieven (37:08.644)
the time we save by using AI. You can have them Joel, them. Bring them to America.
Chad (37:09.889)
Joel's gonna take them both, yeah.
Joel (37:13.422)
Alright, alright. Give me all the Europe. Give me all the Europe.
Chad (37:17.421)
Apparently, Levin hasn't had enough to drink to be able to pick one of the other.
Joel (37:20.014)
Yeah, it was a happy hour and Belgians make the best beer. Jeez, what the hell is going on? We need a dad joke to pull us out of this one, everybody. All right, did you hear about the Italian chef who died? Did you hear about the Italian chef who died? He passed away.
Lieven (37:22.064)
Thanks.
Lieven (37:25.438)
It's alcohol free, that's the problem.
Chad (37:26.541)
That's a great beer. I had great beer last week. That's for damn sure. God.
Chad (37:46.253)
So bad. So bad. Clemen. We out.
Lieven (37:46.572)
Yes Joel. Thank you Joel. We out.
Joel (37:47.886)
We out!EUROPE: Regulation, Randstad and a Tech Rumble
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