In this episode of the Chad and Cheese Podcast Does Europe, Joel and Lieven discuss the Olympics, anti-tourism protests in Europe, and play the ultimate game of Buy or Sell with several European startups. They review and give their opinions on the startups Earlybird, doinstruct, WorkerHero, Moniti and Passionfruit. They also explore the reasons why Europeans have a dislike for tourists.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Joel Cheesman (00:33.739)
Yeah, just two guys who can't get enough of rhythmic gymnastics and a little handball. You're listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast Does Europe. I'm your co -host, Joel Rimcoe Cheeseman.
Lieven (00:46.252)
And I'm bag holder for new analysis.
Joel Cheesman (00:49.611)
And on this episode, Olympic banter, why Europeans hate you, and the mother of all buyer cells. Let's do this.
Joel Cheesman (01:02.345)
What's up, Leaven? Did you miss me?
Lieven (01:05.262)
I always miss you Joel, always miss you.
Joel Cheesman (01:06.571)
that's so nice. So nice. So the last two episodes you did with just Chad, I'm back in town and Chad said, you know what? I'm taking a day off. You'd take it over and have a chat with leaving. At some point we'll all be on the call again, but summer schedules and, you know, just life gets in the way sometimes, but we're going to have a great show as always. If you hate listening to Chad, and I know a lot of you out there do, this is your show. Cause there's no Chad whatsoever. So leaving.
Lieven (01:12.247)
Mm -hmm.
Joel Cheesman (01:34.975)
We have the Olympics going on. They're going right next door to you. What's your take on the Olympics so far, the opening ceremonies? What are you watching? What's your
Lieven (01:40.802)
Hmm, Paris,
Lieven (01:46.904)
I've seen a lot actually and you know normally I'm not really into sports I mean I am to sports doing sport myself but I'm not a sport watcher I'm not the supporter kind of a guy but I started watching the Olympics just because of it's in Paris and like you say it's very close it's an hour and a half by train so I was even thinking about getting there and watching the show but then I thought nah let's watch television but I started watching the opening show and I must say I loved it it was the best I've seen in
Joel Cheesman (02:12.011)
Mm -hmm.
Lieven (02:15.302)
few episodes if you ask me so the whole Godjira thing I I listened to your last show with chat where you called it French Metallica, maybe it's that's good description But I know them I've seen them live before that they're good, but I wondered did you know? The Marie Antoinette she was saying something was it translated to English because it was in French that you get what she was singing I thought it was very interesting, you know and during the French Revolution
They had a song, the commoners had a song. So roughly translated, it's enough. Put the aristocrats at lantern poles. Let's hang them. And that's actually what she sang. And I was wondering, OK, today, this is kind of rough because all those noble families are watching too. And it was their ancestors who were guillotined.
Joel Cheesman (03:06.879)
Lieven (03:12.32)
Yeah, I liked it. I wonder how the current aristocratic families felt about that. But I love the show. I love the
Joel Cheesman (03:17.417)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. so on the opening ceremony, I know you listened to the weekly show. it was very controversial in the States. the, what was deemed as the last supper by a lot of people, Chad would Chad debates that. but as far as our spin in the U S, a lot of Christians, if you will, were, were upset about the, the last supper, the threesome,
the two men and the one like the threesome sort of thing that happened that got us all all riled up. So it was it was kind of hit or miss for Americans watching the opening ceremonies, but I did love the French Metallica that rocked the house. That was awesome.
Lieven (03:59.694)
Yeah. But also it was one big commercial for Paris. It didn't have much to do with the Olympics. Yeah, of course. I mean, they paid 10 billion euros for having it, so they might as well get something in return. if people take offense about the last supper, then the joke is on them, I think. People shouldn't take offense that easy.
Joel Cheesman (04:04.458)
Yes, as it should be. As it should
Joel Cheesman (04:25.289)
I think I think France gets a pass on almost everything because they're so French and at least at least in my book they get a pass. So on the on the sports side, what what are you watching? What are you what are you into? What's what's your take on
Lieven (04:30.646)
Yeah.
Lieven (04:39.624)
I kind of like the Belgian female hockey team. It's not a big thing in the US, think, hockey, because we are actually dominating. No, no, no, it's field hockey, it's field hockey. We don't do ice hockey. Yeah, of course. it's field hockey. And Netherlands is probably getting golds. we're now tonight, where the Belgian team is playing the semifinals.
Joel Cheesman (04:46.175)
This is ice hockey, right? Not field hockey. don't know. Field hockey is a thing. It's always field hockey. Well, I'm glad I asked. I'm glad I asked.
Joel Cheesman (05:04.074)
Mm -hmm.
Lieven (05:05.656)
Or is it the quarterfinals? I don't know. The quarterfinals, yeah. I need to check. Against Spain. And they're doing actually very, very well. So I'm checking them out. And of course cycling, Belgium and cycling is, we have two gold medals, both from Remco, your middle name. Cycling guy. And I was surprised and almost unhappy with Kristen Faulkner, the American.
who took away the gold medal from Lotto Kopecki, the female Belgian cyclist. She was bound to get gold and she only got bronze because of Kristen Faulkner, an American who didn't even was going to make the team. She was a replacement and then she took gold. She was only in cycling for three years. She was working for a big investment company, making tons of money and cycling was her hobby. And then suddenly she decides to go professional after all. And she's starting to steal our medals, which
Joel Cheesman (05:34.175)
Mm -hmm.
Joel Cheesman (06:02.363)
God, that's so American. So I think two last tight check, unless you got one since I did my homework for this, for this episode three, my bad.
Lieven (06:03.05)
she is supposed to do. We only have like three medals.
Lieven (06:10.158)
Three, two goals, one bronze, two goals, one bronze. And I think, yeah, and one bronze.
Joel Cheesman (06:15.051)
two golds. That's what I was looking at. So three medals total. Got it. And what about the field hockey that's exciting for you? Are they good? Or just it's just entertaining? Or they're they're, they're, they're pretty.
Lieven (06:21.003)
of
Lieven (06:25.368)
They're good and they're pretty. mean, most, yeah, to be honest, most women doing top sports, they're not my type, but those are actually fun to look at. But also they're very dynamic. It's a cool team. It's nice to watch. It's fast.
Joel Cheesman (06:36.277)
Got
Yeah. Well, I really enjoyed, was, I was enjoy the track, tracking, like I love the a hundred meter dash, like how fast these women and men are is just ridiculous. and I've also been into mostly cause my wife's Canadian and Canada women's soccer is pretty good. They're also Royal. they're also knee deep in this scandal that they used a drone to watch practices of other teams. So, so there's kind of a lot of, of a lot of heat around the Canadian team and they just lost.
Lieven (07:04.856)
They did.
Joel Cheesman (07:08.533)
this past weekend to Germany on penalty kicks. So women's soccer I've been watching and the, all the running makes me, makes me tired, but also really, really impressed, which brings us to our shout outs. I'll go ahead and go first since mine is a Olympic related. My shout out goes to Yusuf D Kets. Apparently that's how you pronounce his name. Now I I've seen a lot of Gen X shit in my life cause I am Gen X but
this dude in the Olympics, he's a shooter, shoots a pistol. He's 51 years old. He rolls up in a t -shirt. He has his hand in his pocket. There's no, even just earplugs, not even like headphones to silence out the gunshots. And if you watch this competition, a lot of people have.
like strange glasses or things that'll block out, you know, one eye so they can look at one. This dude just rolls up in a t -shirt and gets a silver medal. Like I just, think that is just so cool and so impressive and maybe so Turkish. I don't know, but just no nonsense. Yousef Decatz, shout out to you, my friend. Very impressive stuff.
Lieven (08:23.746)
Yeah, I've seen it. It's all over the internet and I loved it too. Yeah. Cool guy. Okay. My shout out goes to Ryan Buffett for dumping his Apple stock and nothing, not letting me know in advance. Hence the backholder asshole. But, next.
Joel Cheesman (08:44.881)
Angry leaving. Well, maybe some hot news will get you into the right state of mind.
Lieven (08:47.128)
Nah.
Joel Cheesman (08:53.675)
All right, I'm not gonna do the Chad topics things. Let's just get into it. We have a mother of all buyer sells this week. And by the way, it's nice to see so much startup funding going into Europe. I think that's a great thing to see. But let's talk about UK based early bird. Early bird AI has raised $800 ,000 from several investors including Google.
using its voice first AI software. The platform uses AI to analyze job seekers personal and professional information to identify challenges and provide relevant support. Leven, are you a buyer sell on early bird?
Lieven (09:34.286)
They raised $800 ,000 from a dozen of investors, including Google. I mean, how can you convince Google to invest such a small amount of money? It's ridiculous. $800 ,000 divided by 12, including Google. So, or they just didn't want any more money and Google desperately wanted to be part of it anyway. Or this is weird. So I looked into it. It's a tool to help employment advisors support more people.
even though it reaches out to problematic job seekers, but it's like a good thing. So I think it's kind of a greenwashing deal. It's a greenwashing investment. Look at us, we're investing in a tool which helps people who have a distance from the labor markets to get a job after all. That's kind of nice of us. That's, in my opinion, the only reason why they would be investing in it. But that doesn't make it a less good tool, of course. Maybe it's very good, but just because of that for me, it's a sell.
Joel Cheesman (10:38.027)
All right. So the story on this company is pretty heartwarming, I guess. A woman who grew up poor and sort of not on the most, she wasn't off to a great start in life. Let's put it that way. And she made the most of herself and pulled herself up by her bootstraps and has gotten to this point where she started this company. On paper, it's a good idea. They have a multilingual product. You can talk in any language. It will
I guess, magically decipher where you should end up professionally and what you should do. but to me, this is a feel good story. I think your, your comments about people donating or giving money is sort of a little bit, they have, they have this in the budget to give to sort of startups that are doing this kind of thing. But I don't think, I don't think Google giving you money is a, is a rubber stamp that you're going to be successful. Google gives a lot of money to a lot of companies. Most of them.
are not, you know, Nvidia, to say the least. So to me, you throw on that, but also the main point of this is like, it's a, looks like a really complicated product. It's all voice. It's all voice. Text can do the same thing. You can text and other languages as well and get the same result. think in this, there's also, there's a, there's a real anti -immigrant trend in Europe with a lot of countries. So I don't know how I think companies may stay away from this just because of the political.
up evil that's going on with, with an anti -immigrant trend. Frankly, I hate voice. I think it's complicated, stupid. had talking job, on the show, for firing squad a while back and I shot them down because I just think it's too complicated. I don't know how you scale this thing really well. You still have to get job seekers to do it and you still have to get companies to like, get involved unless there's some sort of charity element to this companies.
going be hard to sell them on this. So for me, it's just there's too many obstacles to really get behind this. So for
Lieven (12:42.157)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (12:42.347)
It's also a sell. Well, let's go from early bird to do instruct. Let's get deskless. Leaven Germany based do instruct has secured 7 .6 million euros in funding. The startup aims to address the skills gap in industries like food processing, logistics, and manufacturing, offering mobile first onboarding and training solutions that are compliant, time efficient, and available in multi languages.
Lieven (13:15.232)
I'm a very big believer in training and training tools. At House of HR we had already installed our own professional broadcasting studio to be able to give streaming trainings really professionally. But it's very hard to compete with LinkedIn Learning and even YouTube if you're just a platform. For me, I don't think they offer enough extra to compete with those big companies.
And even if the tools offer a mobile platform, which can be used by different companies to put around trainings on competition is very high. So it's too easy to copy for me. It's a
Joel Cheesman (13:55.519)
Well, I hate to agree with you on so many of these. We're going to have to diverge at some point. so the company said with the new funding, their goal is to scale the product expand internationally, which is what every European company says when they get money. We're coming to America, everybody we're going international. and it, as we know from the show, it rarely works very well. it's very challenging to leave.
Lieven (14:14.4)
Always.
Joel Cheesman (14:22.001)
Europe and go to other other places around the world. Look, I'm with you. It's a great idea upscaling, growing your own. Like that is all a trend that we can get behind. the unfortunate thing for these guys is it's a trend that's about five to seven years into its maturity, which means you have really well -funded, well -branded companies in this space.
You have Harry, you have fountain, which are just two that come to mind. These are, you know, tens of millions of dollars raised, hundreds of millions, not a, you know, unicorn status for some of these. So for me, it's like a great idea, but it is a, it is a knife and a gunfight. These guys are going to get killed by well -funded competition, particularly in the United States.
Lieven (15:09.197)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (15:16.427)
Do instruct also for me is a sale. Let's go to our third startup in this segment. Munich based work hero has secured 4 million euros in a series a round. The company aims to address the labor shortage in Europe by connecting companies with skilled workers, domestically and internationally offering courses for job seekers. Media house, if I'm saying that correctly, a Belgian company operating various job boards supports work heroes focus on the blue.
collar sector leaving this is your lane man. This is your lane. What are your thoughts? Because it's a lot more important than what I think about work worker hero.
Lieven (15:58.23)
Did you know I used to work for MediaHouse? It was my first serious job. They are. It's a very big publishing company, newspapers. I think by now all over Europe, but they're big in Belgium. And they also, they still have Jobad, which is a job newspaper. And it's the only one we have left. The only serious one. They also have a very, very decent local job bar, which is called jobad .be.
Joel Cheesman (16:00.895)
I think I did know that. Yeah, I think I did know that. They're a huge deal, right?
Lieven (16:27.854)
And I used to launch it about 20 years ago, but it's still good. And it's the only kind of job boards I still believe in is with the local approach and they're good. so MediaHus is a media publishing company and they are not known for their reckless investments. So when they invest in something, they must really believe in it. Critical people might even dare to call them kind of bit stingy. They don't like to spend money a lot, stingy. But
Joel Cheesman (16:51.883)
Stingy. Yeah.
Lieven (16:57.75)
Anyway, now they bought a company in Germany, an international blue color recruitment platform, which is a very good business. It's a business we are very familiar with. Definitely in Germany, it's a good business. And I'm kind of concerned about the whole new, it's not even new, the, what's it called, when people buy
providers and they buy their clients. It's vertical integration on the value chain, you know. So this is one of our providers and they're buying in fact, a competitor of ours. This is what happened with Indeed when they launched Indeed Flex. This is what happened when Randstad bought Monster. It's like buying your vertical integration on the value chain. Anyway, at least now they're buying a company in Germany. So it's not like they're actually competing with their own clients in Belgium. Belgium is our main market for the jobs.
So I can live with it. they would buy a company like that in Belgium, we would have to stop collaboration with job ads because then it would be the same thing like with Indeed. But now since Europe is a fragmented market and Belgium just is not Germany, it's not a problem at all. next time I see them, I'm going to ask them if this is their new strategy because we wouldn't like it. But.
It's a very good business, international blue collar recruitment. for me, definitely a buy. And I'm going to check with my colleagues from our &A department if they were aware of this, because this was something we would have invested in, think. I don't know about due diligence, but
Joel Cheesman (18:34.517)
That's good. That's good. All right. man, I'm, I'm glad you're down with it. because to me it's, it's a job board. I mean, I'm with you on blue collar and people want that. I don't know anything about media house compared to what you know about it. So I'm going to defer to you. You guys have job boards around Europe. you understand the market way better than I do just for
It's just hard to get super excited about a company like this. Look, they raised 4 million, 4 million bucks. Can they turn that into 40 million? Yeah, they probably can. is that exciting? Eh, not really. you know, it's a nice business and shit, but is it, you know, is it like gonna set the world on fire? No, they're not coming to America. They're going to be, you know, in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, et cetera. and, it'll, it'll be a nice thing. So for me, like I can't get on board.
I appreciate your perspective. So I'm just going to give this one a firing squad style golf
Successful, but not really in a way that I like to see successful. Let's take a quick break and we'll do some more buyer sell. Stay
Lieven (19:41.499)
Nice.
Joel Cheesman (19:52.875)
All right, leaving the mother of all buyer cells in Europe, marches on let's get to monotony. What do you think it is? O N I T I monet. So we don't know. We'll go with monotony. Monotony, monotony, monotony. is okay. Polish startup has secured $450 ,000 to further develop its app designed for managing.
Lieven (20:04.32)
no clue it's Polish.
Lieven (20:10.304)
Monety. Monety, Edes, monety.
Joel Cheesman (20:19.755)
deskless teams across various industries like construction, manufacturing, and hospitality. With the new investments, Monity plans to scale its operations, develop the product for senior employees, you guessed it, expand globally aiming for a 400 % year -on -year increase in growth. Can I interest you in a Polish startup, Leven? Are you a buy or sell on Monity?
Lieven (20:45.934)
I love Polish startups, I'm not sure about this one. And I'm going to be very, very short about this one. I don't like being too organized. It's like 13 and a dozen companies. So many companies offer something similar. It's just not my thing. It's going to be a sell without any more arguing.
Joel Cheesman (21:03.787)
Okay. I'll try to make it a little longer than that. so the company, like on paper, they're, they're talking to VCs in London and New York. they're, they're expecting a series a at some point. So on, on the surface, looks like they're doing all the right things. My challenge with these guys, is growing outside of Poland.
There's almost no history of Polish companies getting out of Poland that I know of that become a global success story, let alone a European success story. And then I think about, okay, well, what if they're just a big deal in Poland? Well, Poland, outside of, guess, some Ukrainian immigrants that have come over since the war for their tech workforce. I mean, you're talking about a company that has 38 million
Population wise, they're about the size of California or Canada, if you will. The demographic picture does not look great in Poland. They're an aging population like much of Europe. So to think of this as like a major growth industry or growth country with growth, Poland really doesn't come into play on that. to me, history is against them on growing outside of their region and the demographics of their own country.
are really challenged. They're also going to be spending a lot on defense here in the near future. Maybe that can spur some growth, but again, that's fairly limited in my mind. So for me as well, I, just can't get, get behind these guys as
That is a cell. Yep.
Lieven (22:45.216)
So to make a long story short, I sell as well. Okay, so I think my reasoning was as good. Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (22:50.803)
Yeah, okay, good, good. All right, let's get to, go ahead. What do you got?
Lieven (22:56.96)
I dunno, I was just thinking, I... Anyways, no, go ahead.
Joel Cheesman (22:59.945)
I mean, you live in this con you live here like, are there any Polish companies that I'm missing that are just huge success stories in
Lieven (23:08.47)
I don't want to be condescending about Poland, but the only time we get in touch with Polish companies is when they're trying to fix our house or anything. So mostly it's like Masons or people coming to work here in the construction, but we don't know anything about Polish.
Joel Cheesman (23:23.115)
Okay. Okay. Well, at least they're targeting the right industries, blue collar workers, the deskless workforce. So, all right, let's get to, at least the best name. I think, we were early bird. We're going to end with passion fruit. Passion fruit has raised $9 million in a series a funding round. The company launched in 2022 uses AI to help businesses engage with independent marketing talent.
and plans to expand its services across various industries. The funding will be used to develop new products and you guessed it expand into North America. Passion fruit has raised a total of $13 million since its inception. Leaven, are you a buyer sell on passion fruit?
Lieven (24:12.224)
It's a digital freelancing platform, which I think is always a good idea. But why would you specialize in marketing? In my experience, the marketeers are only people who can sell themselves pretty easily. So it's, and we have some experience with freelancing platforms and marketing is the hardest part. So those IT people in many cases are very introverts and they,
are a bit shy to reach out to people so they need a platform. But as marketeers, they're just sell themselves on LinkedIn. Maybe Passion Fruit has something which I didn't catch, but.
I love the concept, I don't like the industry they're targeting. I don't like the marketing part. So for me, it would be a sell just because of that, even though they might be very good.
Joel Cheesman (25:05.227)
All right. That's a cell. Well, while I am the show on a buy or a sell. Okay. they have 3000 freelancers registered on the platform. not a ton of people. there are a lot of marketers out there. I want to be marketers. I'm not sure touting 3000. is that interesting? Look, we talked about fiber and upwork on the, on the show recently. They are challenged to businesses. look, my, my easy example is,
you use Fiverr for things like banner ads or write me a blog post or like sort of these menial tasks, which are all marketing related. AI does it better and free. like how many of these freelancers, particularly on the marketing side are going to have work in a, in freelance environment? Like if, if Upwork and Fiverr are challenged and not really growing,
How can we expect a startup in just one segment to grow? And there's a, company that we talked about quite a bit, early on in its lifespan called Communo, which was started by, some Canadians in Calgary that have like the number one marketing conference in the world, according to Forbes, they thought it'd be a great idea. have the biggest marketing conference in the world. Like let's have a freelance marketing, freelancer space.
And they started out really great. had some really high level companies and celebrities use the service, but they haven't grown. mean, they're basically at the same head count that they were when they started. They're not setting the world on fire. They haven't sold and they've been around for about five years. So for me, like there's no, there's no indication as cool and fun as the name passion fruit is, that this is going to be anything other than a disaster, for, for these guys and the investors. So for me,
Joel Cheesman (27:03.625)
I'm ending our mother of all buyer sells in Europe on a cell. Well, let's, let's take a quick break. And when we get back, we'll talk about why Europeans hate us so much. It's very, very, very
Lieven (27:09.12)
Yes.
Joel Cheesman (27:20.789)
All right, leaving. I'm expecting some, some, some good stuff out of you. want some good, good reasons why you guys hate us so much. right. Anti anti -tourism protests are on the rise in Europe, targeting toro tourists and tourism's local impact. Barcelona and the Maldives for instance, have seen aggressive protests and bands raising concerns about tourism's future and potential discrimination.
Make sense of this for your American listeners and everyone outside of
Lieven (27:57.826)
First of all, Joel, nobody mentioned the Americans. We just don't like tourists. mean, we don't like German tourists. We don't like British tourists. We don't like even Scandinavian tourists, although they behave pretty well. The British are the worst. We hate Russian tourists. They're not welcome anymore. Those really are not welcome anymore, but nobody mentioned the Americans. Of course we don't like American tourists, but it's not like it differs from other tourists. You're just tourists. So, and to make it very clear, we love your money.
Joel Cheesman (28:07.583)
Joel Cheesman (28:13.579)
Mm -hmm.
Lieven (28:27.763)
I think you should all wire the money and stay at home. And then we could have the place for ourselves and also have your money. It would be a win -win and it would be also good for the environment with all those Americans flying over. But to be fair, it's not just Barcelona. It's the same story in Amsterdam. It's the same story in Rome. Those people are fed up with those hordes of tourists just coming over, leaving litter all over the place, being drunk, puking everywhere, pissing everywhere, putting graffiti on the stairs of Rome.
Joel Cheesman (28:34.175)
Lieven (28:58.122)
It's just, it's been too much. So I totally understand the people, but they have to be fair. mean, we've been inviting those tourists for a few hundred years for the money, probably. And now they just can't start complaining that they don't want them anymore. It's one or the other. So I think I will still be polite to all those tourists and help them out.
Joel Cheesman (29:06.677)
huh.
Joel Cheesman (29:18.955)
Interestingly, let's agree Belgium is not exactly Rome. Brussels is not Rome. Do you think Belgians in general have a similar anti -Tourist sentiment or is it just the big cities that get tons of
Lieven (29:34.976)
No, not at
Now, even Brussels, have lots of, we always make fun of them and Japanese and Chinese people taking photographs everywhere. But then they come, they walk around for three hours and then they're to the next stop, which is mostly Paris or sometimes Bruges. But then they leave again and it's fun to watch, but it's not like they're a big pain in the ass or anything. I think it's different if you're in Barcelona and people come for a week.
Joel Cheesman (29:43.274)
Okay.
Joel Cheesman (29:51.263)
Yeah.
Lieven (30:05.826)
We just have some boats and some buses dropping people off and then they pick them up again and they leave. So no, we don't really care, I
Joel Cheesman (30:14.116)
That's good.
Joel Cheesman (30:18.283)
All right. Let's look at some numbers, Leven. According to the latest data that I could find, tourism directly generated an estimated 572 billion euros in gross value added. And this was five years ago. This is pre -pandemic. I know it's probably been worse since the pandemic and the world opened back up, but that is about 5 % of the total gross GDP of Europe. So the, the,
The thing is, man, and you talk about the US, the US was responsible for a lot of it. There's a saying in America, like America is a great place to make money and Europe is a great place to spend your money. So you Europeans, if you like your welfare state, if you like your free healthcare, you like your cush retirement ages, you like your childcare, yeah, if you like all of that.
Lieven (31:02.894)
Perfect.
Lieven (31:12.194)
We have to tolerate the Americans.
Joel Cheesman (31:14.633)
You can thank America because we don't have universal healthcare. We don't have the luxuries that you have. Instead of spending them on our own people, we spend them in Europe so that you guys can have all the entitlements and the welfare benefits. So my friend, are, you are welcome and thank you for the applause.
Lieven (31:29.741)
Yeah, so.
Lieven (31:34.92)
You are the land of the free, but we have free education. Who's free now?
Joel Cheesman (31:37.959)
Exactly. Another perk provided by the Americans. You're welcome, Europe. You're welcome. And with that, the Chadless episode of the Chad and Cheese Podcast as Europe is over. Leaven, I want to hear a good one because Chad's not here. We out.
Lieven (31:57.151)
We out.
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