Recorded live from RecFest, this special episode of Chad and Cheese features Lord Wei, a member of the Science and Tech Committee in the House of Lords, Lord Nat Wei. It's not every day you hear from a political figure on the show! They dive into topics like AI regulation, workforce automation, and tech's role in recruitment. Don't miss it—follow Chad and Cheese for more unique insights.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Intro: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's Most Dangerous Podcast, Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snack. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.
[music]
Joel Cheesman: Oh, yeah. What's up boys and girls? This is the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel Cheesman, joined as always, Chad Sowash in the house.
Chad Sowash: Oh, hello.
Joel Cheesman: And we are giddy to welcome. Let's hear it for, Lord Nat Wei.
Chad Sowash: Lord Wei.
[applause]
Joel Cheesman: How many...
Joel Cheesman: Hopeful.
Chad Sowash: How many Lords have we had on stage with us?
Joel Cheesman: Oh, Lord, one.
Chad Sowash: Okay.
Joel Cheesman: This is it.
Chad Sowash: The first Lord, congrats, right.
Joel Cheesman: Congratulations. Probably our last.
Lord Nat Wei: I'm honored. I'm honored to be your first.
Joel Cheesman: After word gets out in Parliament, it will be our last Lord on stage. You've listened to our show, allegedly, we always have a, what we call a Twitter bio or a short bio about who you are and what is sort of driving you. So, I'm gonna hand the mic to you to let everyone know what you do and what we're kind of gonna be talking about today. Set the stage.
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah. Well, I'm a very eclectic person, so I don't know how easy it's to Twitter bio, but on one level, I'm a legislator, I'm an accidental politician, sort of stumbled in into politics about 14 years ago. But right at the beginning I was a consultant at McKinsey in technology, and then got into social entrepreneurship and recruitment, myself being one of the co-founders of Teach First, which some people I think in America you call it Teach for America. We brought it over and made it a little less patriotic.
[laughter]
Lord Nat Wei: And, but one of the things that for me, I come from a comprehensive school in America, I think, you call it public school, it's very confusing. So government school, really tough, ended up going to a really good university on the back of that.
Lord Nat Wei: And one of the things I remember, and I think it's gonna be relevant to our discussion today is, that I was given a chance to go to the university, I think because even though I didn't have totally the right grades, so I didn't... In this context, I wouldn't have the right CV to get into that university. They had noted that people from my background tended to rocket through university and improve because we were hungry to prove that we could do it. Others maybe coasted in, the whole purpose, which is to get into that university, but they kind of sometimes flatlined a bit. And so I got given that break that... Given that chance, and I've had a few of those moments in my life. I'm sure many people in this room, the humanity of someone giving you a chance, I'm gonna come back to you, but that's why I'm here today. Yeah, yeah.
Joel Cheesman: And you are the only Chinese born member of Parliament that I read that on the Wikipedia.
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah. That's probably me.
Joel Cheesman: And that obviously influenced you're not of the class system.
Lord Nat Wei: No.
Joel Cheesman: Saying as an American.
Lord Nat Wei: I'm actually born in Britain, but my parents are from Hong Kong.
Joel Cheesman: Okay.
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah. So I'm the only British born...
Joel Cheesman: But that clearly shaped...
Lord Nat Wei: From Chinese background. Yeah.
Joel Cheesman: Your journey.
Lord Nat Wei: I'm what they call a banana.
Joel Cheesman: Yeah, a banana?
Lord Nat Wei: White on the inside, yellow on the outside.
[laughter]
Joel Cheesman: Don't get us canceled, dude. Don't get us canceled.
[overlapping conversation]
Lord Nat Wei: But I can say that.
Chad Sowash: He can say that.
Lord Nat Wei: I think I can say that, right?
Chad Sowash: Don't you say that.
Joel Cheesman: I know, but yeah.
Chad Sowash: Don't you say that.
Lord Nat Wei: You can't say that. I can say that.
Chad Sowash: You can't say, that's weird.
Joel Cheesman: That was the Lord for everyone listening on the podcast.
Chad Sowash: All right. And that's the show. Thanks everybody.
Lord Nat Wei: Disclaimer, disclaimer.
Joel Cheesman: I'm a banana. Okay.
Chad Sowash: So, tell us about Maker Life because it feels like your journey that you just talked through is a journey that you wanna be able to help others embrace. Talk a little bit about that.
Lord Nat Wei: So look, I feel like a lot of my life has been a preparation for this very moment in history that we're all in and maybe we're all here for the same reason, because there's a big fight coming, right? So, Teach First was one thing later on I got involved in, I did a... I tried to do a trilogy. So, Teach First, teaching leaders, training middle leaders for schools, and then future leaders, getting head teachers trained up, which would normally take 30 years to do. And we kind of managed to shorten it to about two years. And then later on national service, which I think you kind of call Americo in America, sort of getting teenagers to serve their communities and so on. So I've done a lot of recruitment in my life.
Lord Nat Wei: So, if this actually feels like really at home, being here today and what is become evident to me is that there needs to be a massive, massive shift now, a massive transition to get everybody ready for the world of AI that's coming and to make sure that it isn't just with respect the tech bros and their friends, and anybody who can pay the ChatGPT subscription or whatever it is that gets the look in. But all the other people, frankly, who have been sort of bypassed in previous tech waves. So, for a number of years now, I think eight years, Angela Hood is here from ThisWay Global who we're partnered with, we've been talking about this AI thing is gonna happen. We didn't call it ChatGPT or large language model.
Chad Sowash: It wasn't GenAI at that time.
Lord Nat Wei: It was... I mean, AI has been around a long time, right? But it has to kind of, it's hit peak, the peak moment right now but it's been around. And we were like, "Okay, if this AI thing is coming, we've got to get the workforce ready. We've got to get people, we've got to get the world ready. Let's not get taken by surprise like we did with social media. Let's actually get ahead of the curve." And so we've been talking for nearly a decade about how we would do that. And finally Angela calls me, December last year. So, this is all happening very, very quickly and says, "I think we should work together now on this." And the essential idea is to create a training program which will start with people who are not in work unemployed, underemployed or distant from the workplace.
Lord Nat Wei: Eventually, it's also soon we think, gonna include people in the workplace, 'cause there's millions of people including in your area of work that are gonna need reskilling and upskilling. And to start learning the tools to recruit and to manage talent and to train. And frankly, it's not just HR, it's across the entire organisation where you can start to kind of go, "Well, where can we shorten the time it takes to do something?" That could be full drudgery or just the numbers are so huge that you need to be superhuman to get through all of that, right? I mean, if you give me a detour, one of the fears I've got is, we use technology, maybe you might even use AI to cut the pack. Do you know what I mean? Back in the day when we had paper CVs, you'd have a bunch of CVs and one of the things the industry was known for is literally take half of it and chuck it in the bin, because you literally don't have the time to go through the whole thing.
Joel Cheesman: It still happens.
Lord Nat Wei: It still happens. And I think some of the AI that's coming, sadly, is doing that. It's basically allowing you to not even see the people that you could have seen. And that's a big problem. So anyway, to cut a long story short, Angela has been developing this technology originally from the University of Cambridge, for eight years. It's not large language models, so per se, it's inference models. So, what she did and with lots and lots of training in the real world sort of settings is basically work out how can you do trillions of calculations when you're looking for a particular set of competencies to be filled and get the perfect candidates that will stay in the business and not quit.
Lord Nat Wei: And that's what it's basically doing, 100, 200 million sort of roles people. And here's the key thing, and this is why I think the AI could think could be amazing, is you don't know their name, you don't know their age, you don't know their gender, you don't know what education they had. All you have is the competencies you want to fill. And then it just goes out and finds people and it will go out and find people where you will never think to look. So, that's the great thing about AI. Right now you can't be sometimes bothered or have the time to look beyond somebody who's engineer, this particular job title in this industry, you are literally in that silo. And anybody who hasn't got a title in their CV that fits that is gonna be bypassed.
Lord Nat Wei: Well, what about all the people that you interviewed the last 10 years? What about all the people in the industry over there who can do the exact same job with a little bit of training, retraining and suddenly you fill that job. And when Angela showed me the system that they have, which is an IBM, it is embedded within IBM, which is great because it's compliant. It means that, it's indemnified, I believe you can't get sued, right? Which is rare in the world of AI right now, there's gonna be a lot suing going on. It's basically like a little box where you've got little bits of Lego, which are the workflows. And the cool thing about it is you can put your own systems to talk to it and IBM have 500 people who basically connect the Lego to your SAP system, or Excel, or anything.
Lord Nat Wei: And it's basically an app store that you just put Lego in. And what we're doing is we're recruiting people from backgrounds that have no work, that need an opportunity. And in eight to 12 weeks, we train them, four to eight hours a week. So, it could be done outside of work, outside of study being a mom. And we're getting people within three months to the point where then they're now AI engineers and they can go and work for you guys or help train your people and get you ready for what's coming.
Chad Sowash: Well, I think that's one of the things that talent acquisition is kind of afraid of right now is that the skills curve is there's no curve to it. It is a skyrocket of velocity of tech in the skills. We don't know in the next six months what's going to be next. So, who can we lean on to be able to help us not just get those individuals into our organization, but also help us train the people in our organization? Because we want keep them. We want them to be able to, obviously internal mobility is incredibly important. So, that piece and then also identify individuals who might not have the skills right now, but they're trainable and we can actually build talent pipelines to feed into our systems.
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah, exactly. So I mean, a lot of the issue right now is people in TA are completely snowed under because everyone else is using AI to write you CVs. And so you've got much more workload. So, some of this is about saying, I think before it was let's buy a big SAP solu... One of the reasons why UK productivity is flatlined despite billions and trillions have being spent on IT, is these solutions always some big software that we spend five, 10 years integrating. And at the end of it, you have to write it. I mean, the government is really, in the UK, classically, known for spending money and never achieving any results.
Joel Cheesman: Sounds like the definition of government all over.
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah. Well, maybe Estonia is an exception. But anyway, so, I think what's happening now is you get this plug and play system that can speak to whichever thing you've got. And it could be just start with Excel, frankly, and you just start with the bit that you can do and you start with the bit that's most painful and that creates a little bit of space. Suddenly, you've saved an hour or two. Now in that hour or two, one hour you're gonna use to kind of just relax, have a tea break, have some time for yourself in your busy day working at home, whatever, or in your office. The other hour is like, okay, what's the next painful thing we can sort out? When I was in COVID, this is not necessarily a TA thing, I was on... I was doing 60 hour Zooms, right? Literally, Zoom by Zoom and I was just burning out. So in the end I realized, and this is maybe specific to me, I'm introducing myself in every single meeting. So, I'm doing 60 introductions, taking 15 minutes sometimes with the people just introducing myself. So I said, I'd do a video and the first video was really, really crude. It was me with the long hair. Because we couldn't have haircuts, remember in COVID?
[laughter]
Joel Cheesman: Did you have a mullet? So, you had a mullet, didn't you?
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah, I had a mullet.
Joel Cheesman: Okay, good.
Lord Nat Wei: It's just terrible.
Chad Sowash: He looked like a mountain man. It was horrible.
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah, it was...
Joel Cheesman: Looked like.
Lord Nat Wei: It was, yeah. Anyway, don't want go there. But I had that video of me just introducing myself for five minutes and I got my office to send it to everybody else gonna meet and I cut all my meetings by 15 minutes. I saved four hours the first week. That was a game changer for me. And now that I've saved four hours, then I could start to work on other stuff. So I'm a bit of a life hacker myself. But the key thing I want point out is these people we're training and I think one of the skills we are gonna need to learn in the workforce, instead of saying, "What's the manual for this?" Is to kind of go, "Okay, I need to be open, I need to be prepared to try something just to make my life a bit easier and the life of those around me a bit easier."
Lord Nat Wei: And that means there is no manual. You have to learn to deal with ambiguity, right? And then ask questions. Now the great thing about this IBM system is before it was moving bits of Lego, what's coming is there's actually an AI you talk to and you say, "Can you build this Lego for me?" So that's perfect. And the the beautiful thing is the, it's the Lego speaks to your Lego or you can just completely start from scratch if you want. So I think it will feel a bit less dystopian if we get it right and a lot more, this is about making my life easier and frankly, freeing me up to talk to the people like Nat, when I was applying for university, who you would never have get the time to get round talking to.
Lord Nat Wei: And making that little... Going that extra mile to get that single mom, I mean, we have single moms who've gone through the program. We've got musicians who couldn't get work, but who speaks four languages who totally aced it and, often sadly, you won't bother. In extreme cases like, it's like the Premier League football club, I'm only gonna get another footballer or another manager who's played for another Premier League football club and your gene pool is tiny, and we can't afford that because the demographics means we can't just go for the same pots of people anymore.
Joel Cheesman: Nat, I'm curious we don't talk to members of government very often and one of the things that we hear is, this is human nature, right? We change, we adapt, we evolve. We went from horses to cars as an example, my comment is always that when that happens historically, it's been over decades. We've had kind of time to get there. It seems like we don't have the time today. Obviously, you're talking about some things you're doing on the government level, you have a lot of corporate folks here that are kind of figuring out what the world looks like, what advice would you give them in terms of what they can do to make sure that their workforce is prepared for the near future.
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah, I would just pilot stuff, right? 'Cause there's two options, you either sit back and wait for all the court cases to clear out with opening whoever as things work out, or you wait for the government to tell you what to do. And I'm afraid both don't work 'cause the government... This thing is so big, it's like imagine when electricity got invented and you're waiting for the government to figure out what to do with the invention of electricity. And at some point we have standards for not getting electrocuted and but it took decades didn't it, and in the meantime you have electricity. So, I think you've got to think about it, and this is not some little tweak, this is not just social media appearing and the impact of that, this is sort of a fundamental shift in the way we're gonna live and work and just do everything.
Lord Nat Wei: So, the best thing to do is, "Okay, I'm gonna try it in a very secure safe way on something that is painful, and if it works, great we'll then roll it out, if it doesn't work, we'll do something else." I think you've got to have that mindset in the end we're going to be the ones that tell government hopefully, "No, we want it like this, and we don't want it like this." But we have to give government... We have to give our corporate leaders some sense of where the line should be. And you won't know where the line should be unless you try a little bit and figure out what it's great for and what it's not so good for.
Chad Sowash: So we're talking about a couple of different things. We're talking about systems number one. We're talking about people number two, right? When we're talking about the people part, that in itself is always we hear politicians talk about it all the time, right? We will take the disadvantage. We will bring them up. Sounds great. Let's talk about the tactics. How are you going to make that happen? How have you made that happen?
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah, so we're trying to do this in a very kind of organic way. So, literally the first batch, we've had two cohorts so far, 20 trained engineers, so if anybody wants them get in touch, ThisWay Global are the key touch point for getting these people and the system. We just started with groups of 12, up to 12 and take them through this. We don't just train them in the technology. We train them in mindset. How do you do that? The first month is just to learn how to use ChatGPT, Claude, all of the GenAI system, GenAI systems, and then you chuck stuff at them that is very hard to do humanly and you get them to try and do it in an hour or less.
Lord Nat Wei: So, you're trying to get them to stretch themselves and not be limited by their own beliefs and their own limitations. And then you start to show them the system and then you start to get them to imagine, "How could this make the life easier for someone in a TA environment." Like, one of the clients I mean, because of IBM and the work you've done last, Angela has so many clients entire governments now are looking to implement this stuff. One government is looking to do it, whenever there's an industry that collapses this government is gonna use this technology to redeploy all the people that lost their jobs over here into new jobs over there that you wouldn't think to place them in 'cause it doesn't look like they're the same jobs but they are.
Lord Nat Wei: So hopefully, we'll have fewer kind of entire cities and towns being like northern towns here in the UK... They just get redeployed. We give the mindset training, so during the week there's one hour session in the tech side, there's one hour on the mindset. Because in three months time you could have gone from being unemployed to having 100K job. And that's gonna transform your life completely and so what we say to them is don't just use this to get a great job, use this to redesign your life. What do you want your portfolio to look like, you might be able to convince work one day to give you a four-hour workweek because you've taken the time it takes to recruit someone from 20 days to two hours. You save them five million quid that year alone, right?
Lord Nat Wei: How can we make that benefit both the people at work so they get pay rises, get better work conditions? But also mean that you have time for your kids, you can do that project you've always wanted to do, learn to be a musician whatever it is. That's what's at stake here. I think it's like, the previous century there was this American dream, British dream you get a mortgage, get a job for life, you get corporate perks, yeah, it's gone, right? What's coming is there's gonna be a massive value creation because of this new electricity. The real thing that we have to figure out is how we're gonna distribute that value, right? Is it all gonna go to California and the tech bros or is some of it gonna also go to the companies and the country through greater greater, the taxes they get paid and the workers? Do we get to have a better work-life balance?
Lord Nat Wei: Do we get to have more time actually talking to people, interviewing them going out of our way to find people that should be in the funnel or are we gonna spend all our time like one of the clients Angela mentioned who sent their entire global team spend 65% of their time doing scheduling. Do you really wanna be doing scheduling all of your life or do you actually wanna be doing something more human? That's the question.
Joel Cheesman: I think abled-bodied people are having enough challenge of figuring out the future, when I talk to people with disabilities and how they come out of this, I think in some ways the pandemic was a net positive. Working from home. Screen time.
Lord Nat Wei: Record levels of individuals with disability getting hired.
[overlapping conversation]
Joel Cheesman: And then on the other side this looks very scary if I'm a person with a disability. How do you see the future in terms of those folks?
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah. Well, the great thing about some of this technology that's coming is because it's competency based. And I think one of the things that Angela and her team did amazingly was to realize that people have bias. We have bias when we recruit. You might say you're unbiased, but it's like a subconscious thing. I think you even found people whose names on CVs were the same name as a boyfriend you used to have actually affected the outcome.
Joel Cheesman: No.
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah. Can you believe that? Or a girlfriend? Yeah, it's just crazy. But also the people who apply for jobs have biases. They look at your job title, work that you've given them, or they look at the company, and they're like, oh, I don't think I'll ever be good enough because I am either not educated or autistic or disabled or whatever. Or from a racial background where we'll never get on in that industry. So actually when you strip out all of that and you say, let's just start with no names, no gender, none of this, just what do you actually want the person to do? What are their competencies? Then you will find, remarkably, there are incredible numbers of people out there that you've never found or considered who might have disabilities or mental health stuff they have to manage. But with the right sort of design of that job, suddenly they're gonna be able to do it.
Lord Nat Wei: They're gonna stick around longer, which is saving you money, and you're not having to fight with everybody else with that kind of auction to get that one-star person that's potentially the perfect fit, but then might be gone in six month's time because they didn't like your culture. You'll find someone who's gonna be more loyal. And I think that's the opportunity we have to kind of redesign the way this works. I really hate, despite working in education, I hate exams. I've got two kids we homeschool. Their life became horrible when we had to get them ready for GCSEs and A-levels, because suddenly it's like a sausage machine, not the freedom and the creativity that we raise them into.
Lord Nat Wei: And I do think that we need to kill that exam culture, frankly, in the way we do recruitment, because we miss so many great people who could be wonderful just because we have these little boxes that we have to put them into so we can tick. But now, with these systems which are certified, which are gonna be... Which are compliant, which can do superhuman work, they can search 200 million people and look at the competencies and find the exact person. You talked about somebody in your team, Angela, last night, who had to speak Portuguese anywhere in the world and work with your CTO who didn't speak English.
Lord Nat Wei: And in what, one hour, the system found the person because the system has a database of all the veteran spouses in the world for the US Army. And they're an amazing pool that people overlook. And I think she was in Italy or something, or Germany coming back to America, literally hired her that week. How long would that search have typically taken to find a Portuguese person willing to work in Texas we're talking like a month or two.
Chad Sowash: Needle in a haystack.
Joel Cheesman: Months. Yeah.
Chad Sowash: Needle in a haystack. Needle in a haystack. So, little twist. We've seen the expansion and contraction of remote work. Everybody had to go to remote work, which is one of the reasons why so many individuals with disabilities could actually get a job and work and flourish. Now there's a contraction. Is this technology going to force those old-minded CEOs that they've got to, they have to be more remote-focused because it doesn't matter where the talent is, it's about what the talent can do.
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah. I mean, the pendulum's been swinging back and forth the last few years. On this one, I just think about both demographics and geopolitics. So traditionally, the way you solve this problem is you just import the people. You import people who are willing to commute and do the long hours and the migrant. But as you know politically, that's really difficult for lots of countries. We have some estimates, two billion people wanna come north because of climate change and economic and war. That's gonna put so much pressure on our democracies that the borders aren't gonna be as open, sadly for me because I've got people I'd love to bring over and do stuff. It's gonna be very limited. So you're left with two options. One is Gen Z, recruit Gen Z.
Lord Nat Wei: And the other one is the same people that could be coming over physically, but who could do it remotely. And the answer is you're gonna need both, just because of demographics, the way the talent funnel demographically, the pool that we have to fish from is shrinking. And get this. So we're a decade or so away from needing, for every four people who are over the age of 70 or 80, there'll be one person providing the taxes to support them in their old age. So technically that means that one person needs to be earning a quarter million pounds a year to pay for the public services for those four people. So all of this is in no luck to be gonna lead to Gen Z, we've got some Gen Z in the room.
Lord Nat Wei: We've got to get them amazing jobs, probably with AI to help the rest of us save those millions of dollars, make life easy for us who are still in those businesses. And guess what? Gen Z love remote work. They actually... I think they love office work too, 'cause it's a chance to get mentored and but they're gonna be like, what? Two, three hours a day commuting each way? I'm going over there. And because you need to have them, at some point you've got to cave and give them at least a hybrid deal. So I think it's inevitable. I just think right now we're in a moment where, for various reasons, there's a fight back and it's gonna end up somewhere in the middle, yeah.
Joel Cheesman: When you talk about population collapse and immigration, part of closing the border is, those folks become a drain on the system. They become either welfare recipients or government responsibilities. Are you outlining a future where can we train people so quickly that an immigrant can come and within six months, a year, be a high-skilled laborer? And is that part of the solution? Should we open the borders and just educate them much more quickly because we have these systems? Or do you think we're gonna continue in this death, doom spiral of no immigration, aging population? Is this technology part of the solution?
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah, there's a need for nuance. So first of all as the son of migrants, this whole putting all migrants in the same box. There are different kinds of migrants. If a migrant comes from a village somewhere and comes straight to the UK, that might be a drain on our finances. It might be a humanitarian thing to do, but there's a lot of investment you need to put into them and their family. But you've also got migrants from other parts of the world who are amazing. They could be doctors, they could be filling all kinds of roles that we can't ever hope to fill. And I think the way we do this sensitively is kind of go, well, for everyone we bring in to do that, we've got to train a local person 'cause often... And often in the same town where we send the migrant so that the impact on the local population isn't gonna be, oh, they're taking all our jobs. No, you're you're benefiting 'cause we're going to train you both in AI and in future in the robotic AI, by the way, 'cause a lot of these jobs are fruit picking as well.
Lord Nat Wei: They're carers. There's gonna be a shift as well, I think, in future, where you're gonna have automation in those physical roles as well. And so it's gonna be really interesting world. And some of the best paid work is gonna be how you design that to work in those environments, to both be doing the work, making sandwiches and in figuring out how the robot can also make sandwiches. I was actually working on a project where they were trying to figure out how to get robots to make sandwiches.
Joel Cheesman: I mean, sandwiches and sausages making me very hungry.
Lord Nat Wei: And yeah, guess... This is the really funny thing. Guess the thing they couldn't get the robot to do, which they still haven't cracked, which is they can get the robot to butter the sandwich and like do this to the sandwich. But when you pick up the chicken, you need to kind of or ham, you need to distribute it on the sandwich really quickly. And they found that the human workers could feel with their hands the exact right proportion of chicken to put down much better, 'cause the robots can't feel yet. So I think it's gonna be a hybrid world where, some of us are feeling chickens or interviewing candidates. The robots are slapping on the bread or doing the scheduling.
Joel Cheesman: Robots also don't eat the sandwich. So they're not customers of the sandwiches.
Lord Nat Wei: Not yet.
[overlapping conversation]
Chad Sowash: So they don't know how good or bad. Yeah. Yeah.
Joel Cheesman: We are... Do you have another question?
Chad Sowash: Yes. Yes. So there are some companies who have actually created policies against the use of chat GPT, which is incredibly efficient. I mean, we actually use systems that have Gen AI infused into it, and it helps a lot with, I mean, just the administrivia and all this. So what would you say...
Joel Cheesman: I get a lot more nap time because of the AI.
Chad Sowash: Which is hard to believe 'cause you nap a lot no matter what. So at the end of the day, these companies who are creating policies against using generative AI, what would you say to them to get them to be a little bit more risky and to start to embrace the future? Because this isn't going away, kids.
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah. Well, for us, it's very important 'cause we're changing people's lives. We don't then wanna get them into jobs which suddenly collapse because of some lawsuit or whatever. So, Angela's been really clever. They partner with IBM.
Lord Nat Wei: And I think IBM is like one of the only companies in the world that's indemnified to have a guarantee. So the company can't get sued, if they're using this AI responsibly and the way it's been trained for people to use it. And I think there's gonna be a differentiation in the marketplace between those AI companies and all these startups coming up. Wonderful. But this is gonna work with my corporate system. Will our chief legal officer, chief financial officer be worried about the impacts of this? Or is it gonna be in a system that's actually safe, being properly tested, GDPR compliant, DE and I, all of that kind of stuff.
Lord Nat Wei: If you're in that sandbox, then suddenly you can unleash the kind of creativity that ChatGPT gives us in our private lives. But now in our work environment and figure out how to make life easier and have more hammock time, which I think should be part of the deal, too.
Joel Cheesman: Our final minute here. How can people connect with you? Maybe Angela as well in the project. Give them a takeaway.
Lord Nat Wei: Yeah. So right now, for people who are interested in Maker Year, you can go to Maker Year, M-A-K-E-R-Y-E-A-R.CC. That's that's mainly for recruiting people.
Lord Nat Wei: And then to find out about the actual technology ThisWay Global. It's thiswayglobal.com. Right.
Lord Nat Wei: And you can learn. And they're very, very happy to show you the demo. It's pretty amazing.
Lord Nat Wei: You look there and your jaw drops and it's like, wow, it's doing all this work. And then you've got to think, Okay, what are the other thing I can do with all the time that I freed up, to make life better for everybody.
Joel Cheesman: Lord Nat Wei, everybody, let's hear it.
[applause]
Outro: Wow. Look at you. You made it through an entire episode of the Chad and Cheese podcast. Oh, maybe you cheated and fast forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back. Valuable time you could have used to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell. Enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuggle heads instead. Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt. But save some soap because you'll be back. Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away. And like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out.
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