In this episode of The Chad & Cheese Podcast, your favorite snarky duo, Joel and Chad, tackle the light and breezy topics of, oh, you know, political dumpster fires, mass layoffs, and the slow-motion train wreck that is HR tech. But don’t worry, they keep it upbeat with some good ol’ fashioned sportsball updates (because, priorities) and ADP’s latest shopping spree, snagging Workforce Software like it’s a Black Friday deal. Oh, capitalism, you're so quirky!
As Chad and Joel take a deep dive into ADP’s "brilliant" master plan to fend off up-and-coming HR tech rivals (cue ominous music), they also get a kick out of SEEK’s acquisition strategy, which—spoiler alert—might just shake up the market. Or, you know, not. Depends on whether anyone's paying attention.
Then, the boys turn their attention to minimum wage debates, a topic that's sure to get everyone riled up. Wage increases? Economic impacts? Let’s just say they’re here to highlight how much of a mess that conversation still is.
But wait, there’s more! The podcast also drops some love for Tulsa’s remote work program—a totally chill and not-at-all desperate attempt to lure workers with promises of wide-open spaces and cheap rent. And because no episode would be complete without a tragedy, they wrap things up by discussing a truly uplifting topic: workplace safety after a factory accident. Workplace accountability? What’s that?
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION (Blame AI for errors)
Chad (00:12.617)
So.
Joel (00:32.088)
Two guys who love the nightlife and love to boogie. Hi kids, you are listening to the chat and cheese podcast. I'm your cohost Joel, the real father of IVF cheeseman.
Chad (00:43.049)
Hahaha
this is Chad, I can't take this fucking political cycle anymore, so wash.
Joel (00:52.03)
on this episode. Layoffs, acquisitions, and bad bosses. my, let's do this!
Chad (01:03.194)
my God. Thanks for that. I needed that. Jesus. God. Jesus, yeah.
Joel (01:04.494)
19 more days as of this recording. 19 more days. As if it'll end in 19 days.
Chad (01:11.381)
Well, yeah, think we've got a greater likelihood of it ending if Kamala wins because we don't have to worry about really a change of power to be quite frank.
Joel (01:23.438)
She better landslide that shit if she does. She better leave no doubt that she won the election.
Chad (01:30.153)
Yeah, well, welcome to democracy. Welcome to democracy and propaganda.
Joel (01:33.614)
It's gonna get crazy. I'm just sick of the texts. my God. Like I get 10 to 12 texts a day asking for money or buying stuff. I mean, if my texts are any indication, Ted Cruz is in trouble. I get more Ted Cruz stuff randomly. So that can't be good.
Chad (01:43.901)
Ha!
Chad (01:56.925)
You get Ted Cruz texts? Jesus Christ, I'm glad I'm not on the list that you're on.
Joel (02:00.302)
So I get, I'm on, I'm on, well, I'm on some GOP lists somewhere. so I get all kinds of shit. I'll get state stuff here locally. I'll get, don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Like most of it's Trump, by the way, isn't it weird? The whole sale shit that he's selling, selling coins. He's selling like NFTs. He's so it's just so, it's just so weird that, that we live. It's so weird that we live in a time.
Chad (02:11.283)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Chad (02:22.441)
Dude, he's a fucking con- he's a con man. He's a fucking con man.
Joel (02:29.87)
where a presidential candidate is selling shit. It's just weird. It's not like the history books have no, there's no stories about Lincoln roaming the Midwest selling top hats or something. It's just such a weird fucking world we live in, man.
Chad (02:34.146)
Mm-hmm. It's, yeah, it's idiocracy.
Chad (02:43.455)
Yeah.
Chad (02:51.221)
I would like-
Joel (02:52.03)
I don't fucking get it. then, and then sports guy, let's get to sports real quick. The Buckeyes lose in a sham of a sham of a rule. by the way, takes time off the clock. If you know, you know, the Browns trade, trade a wide receiver one for a third, third round pick. The, the guardians are down O2 to the Yankees. It's just, it's just, it's just a, it's a bummer time for sports at least.
Chad (02:56.604)
yeah.
Chad (03:08.611)
huh. Yup.
Chad (03:16.021)
Yeah, well, see, I don't mind the Buckeyes losing by a point. Here's why. First and foremost, they're going to get into the playoff. Okay. Now they have a chip on their shoulder where before everybody was touting how they were the best this, the best that, and so on and so forth. They needed a chip on their shoulder. They're going to have that. They're not going to go in as number one, which I am fine with. So I think this is good for billboard. I think for the billboard on the...
Joel (03:24.92)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (03:44.157)
on the wall when you're going in every week, you're not number one. So for me, I think it's okay. I wasn't happy that they lost, but I think it's gonna work in their favor.
Joel (03:45.678)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (03:57.07)
At least they didn't lose to Vanderbilt, Alabama. That's, that's the worst. I think that loss is worse than Appalachian state beating Michigan back in the day. That is a horrible loss.
Chad (03:59.413)
Hahaha
Chad (04:08.159)
I think it is too. think it is too. Okay, okay, let's get the shot out.
Joel (04:11.158)
And by the way, Ball State plays Vanderbilt this week. So if they beat Vanderbilt, can officially say Ball State is better than Alabama just for the record.
Chad (04:20.371)
Yeah, by proxy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Joel (04:22.002)
my proxy. shit, let's get to let's get to something that we know. By the way, our shout outs are sponsored by our good friends and Canadians.
Chad (04:26.527)
Checkouts. All right.
Chad (04:33.749)
Keyora, Keyora, Keyora. This shout out made simple. It's interesting this week, shout out to smart recruiters for launching Winston. We spent all last week in Scottsdale talking to companies specifically about how they're using technology.
Joel (04:33.996)
That's right, Kiora. Text recruiting made simple. What you got, Chad?
Joel (04:52.238)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (04:55.841)
to automate, save money at the same time. I mean, to do the things that we should have been doing for years. And we got some amazing stuff, which is going to come out, kids. Get ready for the AI session, season two and season three. But then this week, then this week, we see smart recruiters launching Winston. And this is going in the same direction, which I think is incredibly smart because all of these old legacy applicant tracking systems who have the forms that nobody's going to fucking fill out.
They have conversational engagement, which to me feels like conversational AI is going to be happening here using scheduling, multi-layered screening, adaptive UI. What does that mean? I guess we're going to find out. then agentic insights, which I believe means the AI will dynamically build reports. CEO, newly minted CEO Rebecca Carr is putting her stamp on smart recruiters pretty damn fast. And since we're pretty close,
with them and the rest of the team, I am pretty excited to take a look and get a deep dive into some of this tech. And if anybody has not seen our latest interview with Rebecca Carr, just go to ChadCheese.com or go to YouTube, ChadCheese on YouTube.
Chad (06:17.215)
Shout out to automation.
Joel (06:18.4)
And good, good on smart recruiters for giving their AI a boy's name. Everyone's a woman. Everyone's sort of a feminine, like good for them. Winston's a good, strong, strong name. Good, good for them. Good for them. All right. My shout out goes to Natasha Badger. Who the fuck is Natasha Badger? Well, let me tell you, she's gone viral on Tik TOK for giving some, some job search advice on how to leverage LinkedIn in a smart way.
Chad (06:29.109)
Winston.
Chad (06:37.619)
no clue.
Joel (06:47.962)
she's up to about 2 million views, knowing that a lot of people aren't in our industry. know that you've gotten contacted by some folks as I have as well are looking for a job. and, some of the kids are watching the show and on YouTube, I thought it'd be, I it'd be worthwhile to show her tick talk that is blowing up. If you haven't seen it already, check it out.
Chad (06:56.629)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (07:35.124)
No we don't.
Chad (08:22.047)
Shortcut.
Joel (08:26.987)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (08:29.629)
Boom. Boom.
Joel (08:30.572)
Genius. And if you haven't seen it, our recent interview with Alison King entitled, unemployment pros job search journey is something that you should watch if you're looking for a job. Some really creative ideas around LinkedIn to find a job. Shout out to Natasha Badger. What a great last name. Badger, Natasha Badger. Love it. Love it. Almost as good as getting free shit from us.
Chad (08:35.977)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (08:45.909)
Definitely.
I
Chad (08:52.765)
All right. Well, that's that was free advice. Now we've got free shit that you can go to Chadcheese.com slash free and register. What are you registering for kids? you know, you know, T-shirts, those sexy little T-shirts with the new guns and roses, Chad and cheese logo on the front and the Aaron app logo on the back. Beer from Aspen Tech Labs. That's craft beer. It's going to land on your doorstep. Whiskey.
Two bottles of whiskey kids from Tex Colonel slash Bullhorn. Bourbon barrel aged syrup from our friends at Keyora. And last but not least, birthday, birthday, birthday, your birthday. You might get rum from Plum. Go to ChadCheese.com slash free, register, can't win unless you play.
Joel (09:46.926)
That's right, Chad. Some listeners are celebrating a birthday this week. I'm to go through the whole month because we're traveling, which I know we'll get to in a second, but, celebrating another trip around the sun. got Gary Gray, Cheryl Callaway, Brandon Pointer, Melissa Allen, Rob Janone, Dennis Tupper, Sean Horton, Tom Kenny, Ryan Beck, Punkage Jindal, Cameo Owens, Jonathan Stelling, Jeremy Roberts, Heather Cochran, Desiree Goldie, Tracy Jackson, Bob Warbrow, Tom Daniels, John Sullivan.
Chad (09:48.501)
Yeah
Chad (09:53.365)
Let's do it. Yes.
Chad (10:06.581)
There we go.
Joel (10:16.874)
And look out Chad, it's a double Scotsman treat.
Chad (10:21.878)
Ooh, what? What? What?
Joel (10:24.792)
That's right, Stephen O'Donnell and Scotsman number one, Stephen McGrath are celebrating another trip around the sun. So happy birthday, everybody. Happy birthday.
Chad (10:29.95)
There he is!
Chad (10:36.393)
Happy birthday. So we talked about a little bit about fantasy football. I really don't want to because on Monday night, Monday night, right before I was slated to win and right before they started, my guy sat on the bench because he had an injury and that was last minute. I didn't get a chance to sub in and I literally lost by like maybe five points or some shit like that. So yeah, that hurt. That hurt. That hurt.
Joel (10:42.254)
Uh-huh.
Joel (10:54.008)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (11:00.344)
That's that's fantasy baby. had my tight end on the first play got hurt, got hurt at, at the Eagles, but yeah, that's, that's how it goes. Let's get into it. That's our cue for the fantasy football leaderboard. Fantasy football is, know, Chad sponsor by our buddies at factory fix. check those out. If you guys are looking for hourly employees, here's your leaderboard after week six of NFL football, David Stifle.
Chad (11:06.679)
yeah.
Chad (11:17.845)
Mmm.
Yes.
Joel (11:28.15)
is still in number one spot. Dean Daddy Mac, Daddy Mac Mackerel took me to the woodshed and gave me a boomerang to the head this week. Yeah, he did. Number three, Jennifer Terry Bradshaw, Tharp. Number four, I'm still there. Joel slippery slope cheeseman. Number five, action Jackson Dalquist. Number six, Laura magic Martinelli. Number seven, Dina Pero for pyro. She was last year's champion as you know, number eight,
Chad (11:30.001)
Damn!
Chad (11:35.091)
Ooh, put the spanking.
Chad (11:41.951)
Damn.
Joel (11:56.876)
With a bomb, Adam Gordon Ramsey quickly finding the seller of the the league. Number nine, Keith, the commission Sunderling number 10 bad Chad. So wash number 11, Christie linebacker Lisbon and number 12 in the seller. Again, Sean Horton hears a who that is your leaderboard for fantasy football sponsored by factory fix.
Chad (12:06.677)
Damn.
Chad (12:25.974)
Excellent, excellent. We've got one more week of travel. That's next week. We're to be in New Orleans for HR gumbo. It's going to be a blast, kids. It's going to be a blast. Keith Sonderling is going to be on stage with us. know Guru is going to be there from Fair AI. Fair now, H-I. My bad. AI. Julie is going to be on stage talking about black box AI and how it might impact individuals with disabilities.
Joel (12:43.852)
Okay.
Chad (12:51.221)
We're gonna be rooftop parties at Rosie's, another more formal gathering at the World War II Museum, which should be a blast for you history buffs out there. And yeah, it's gonna be great. I'm gonna get a chance to pull a lot of speakers on the mic and just have a good time down in NOLA.
Joel (12:56.162)
Nice.
Joel (13:08.344)
The big easy baby. Well, before we get to topics, that's right. We got some layoffs to talk about. Well, quick update. talked about career builder plus monster. That's their official name now. Real creative career builder plus monster. aim group is reporting that, the layoffs hit about 200 employees, roughly 15 % of the workforce. so that, was sort of highlighted and top towel.
Chad (13:11.017)
Hmm. Y'all. no. no.
Chad (13:21.951)
Ha ha ha ha!
Chad (13:36.949)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (13:37.568)
A company that Chad says no one knows. So anyway, this might be news for you. Just the name of the company, the self-proclaimed world's largest fully remote workforce has laid off a whopping 70 % of its engineering team affecting roles across software engineering, data science, and design in multiple countries like the U S Ukraine and Poland. Chat any thoughts on updates on layoffs?
Chad (14:06.803)
Yeah, just a continuation of last week with Monster. If that's not anything we should be surprised with. But I do have some insider knowledge that we were talking about, whether they would have two databases, two types of tech, et cetera, cetera. Nope. From my understanding, again, this is a rumor, from the inside, they're going to go to one platform, one tech platform. And then they'll more than likely merge the candidate databases into that one search platform.
So try to make it a big, bad career builder plus monster. On the top toll side of the house, it was funny because just literally last week, one of my friends was asking me about them because they were pretty much being dragged into conversations about, prospectively, being on the leadership team. And I was like, don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. I mean, they are so far behind the rest of the competition that's out there.
Joel (14:54.933)
huh.
Joel (15:03.601)
huh.
Chad (15:03.631)
it's, it's just not worth it. literally isn't worth it. And then this information comes out and like, holy shit, talk about dodging a bullet. but yeah, yeah, that a lot of this doesn't surprise me. We're going to see a lot of the smaller players who haven't evolved fast enough. They don't understand how to partner in, in build. they're going to, they're going to get flushed down the toilet and that's where it feels like top tiles going.
Joel (15:24.908)
Did you tell your buddy not to fall for the banana in the tailpipe?
Chad (15:28.021)
Yes. Yes.
Joel (15:32.206)
The question I have is 70 % of your engineering, is that an AI thing? Because that's crazy. Thriving businesses don't cut 70 % of their engineering team. That's not a good sign for anybody.
Chad (15:45.385)
Yeah, tell that to Elon Musk.
Joel (15:48.802)
Tell that to throw. All right. Time out. Did you see the whole taxi thing and the people robot and the bus? That was awful. Like the, the, the robots were mostly apparently, by human humans were, yeah, like they were hardly remote. anyway, the stock, the top stock took a big hit, but anyway, okay. Yeah. If you haven't checked that out, it's, it's, it's pretty bad, but let's get into some of our industry news here.
Chad (15:52.841)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
yeah.
Chad (16:04.134)
Remote control. Yeah. Yup.
Chad (16:13.333)
Tesla is a wreck. Topics!
Joel (16:20.238)
All right. A little company called ADP has acquired Michigan based workforce software. The acquisition integrates workforce software solution and time tracking, scheduling, other services into ADP's existing services. Chad, your take on this acquisition.
Chad (16:39.293)
Yeah, I mean, when companies say they have a build partner or buy strategy, most only have a partner strategy or maybe a buy every now and again strategy, but ADP can drop the coin necessary on any given fucking day and buy whatever they want. So in this case, yes, workforce has a portfolio of companies. ADP is buying that portfolio. That's awesome. But more importantly,
ADP added complimentary capabilities to their suite of solutions, which they can now offer to their million plus customers in over 140 countries because workforce is also global. Workforce software has been in business since 1999. This is not a startup kids. This is a full-fledged been in business for a long damn time. So the question is why sell? Well, VC and PE were deep into workforce.
Joel (17:15.488)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (17:36.213)
software and since Evergreen dumped some additional cash in the kitty in 2019, the clock was ticking and apparently time was up. At the end of the day, what's happening here is we're starting to see ADP, and this is gonna be hard, man. It's not gonna be easy no matter how much money they have, trying to pull everything together with their Lyric automations, right? AI automations. It's gonna be incredibly, incredibly hard. Although if there's any company who can do it in the space,
Joel (17:51.48)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (18:05.607)
It's them because they got the cash they got the people and they got the know-how so it's going to be interesting to watch this
Joel (18:11.16)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (18:16.782)
So Bloomberg reported that this deal went down for about $1.2 billion, not too shabby for that, for workforce software. I'm sure their shareholders are pretty happy about that. They employ around 700 people. They're a pretty steady company. Headcount, no dips, no valleys, no peaks. mean, they're just sort of steady. Eddie, like I guess a good Midwestern Michigan company should be.
Chad (18:23.359)
Mmm.
Chad (18:32.607)
Yes.
Joel (18:42.86)
You mentioned ADP is 1 million clients in 140 companies, like a huge ADP is a huge business. And when they buy someone, I mean, there's a lot of accountants, a lot of due diligence, a lot of people looking under the hood to make sure that it makes sense. So like, I think that that's your comment about if anyone can make it work, ADP is certainly up there. historically acquisitions don't work out very well. so we'll see what happens there. I think that this
Chad (18:43.177)
Yeah, Lavonia.
Chad (18:50.516)
Yes.
Joel (19:11.596)
I think this was a big move for ADP to stay like long-term relevant. I don't want to necessarily say blame deal for this deal. Sorry, I had to do that. But I do think that ADP has made a living off payroll and they've included services. I don't know how good those services are. I don't really hear a lot of people like banging the drum for how great ADP's other stuff is. Their marketplace is pretty thriving. So they get sort of a good look at what other people are using, what they want.
Chad (19:19.859)
Hahaha
Chad (19:38.175)
Yeah.
Joel (19:40.45)
But as more platforms, like there are certain platforms that aren't building in your marketplace. Deal is not building in your marketplace, remote oyster, all those companies, they want to be your competitor. And as they add payroll to their services, ADP has really no other choice in my mind than to start competing on the other software services that those companies are providing. So if you want to be the one platform to rule them all, you're going to have to have some of the services.
that workforce software provide. And they seem like the winner that gets the golden ticket to get acquired by ADP. But I think this is spurred primarily by, shit, we have competition and we need to do things to make sure that we're not irrelevant in 10 years.
Chad (20:27.423)
Yeah, I don't think they see DELO's competition yet. I see them as a they see them as a very small, small fish. know, 500 million ARRs, nothing to ADP. They drop that in their couch cushions. Although DELO is awesome. And I really believe, you know, what they are doing could transform not just the EOR side of the house, but also staffing as we talked to Atlas about that, too. Jim over at Atlas.
Joel (20:53.806)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (20:56.106)
I do think that one of the, one of the, superpowers that ADP has is they have so many fucking solutions that they go in. They get somebody to use one or two, and then they, they land those solutions and then they expand with all these other things. So the sales process starts when you become a customer, when you become a customer, because then it starts to explode and, an acquisition like this, get ready kids.
Joel (21:10.828)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Joel (21:18.872)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (21:25.203)
because every ADP customer who's not already using Workforce Solutions, they will automatically start getting sold on this. And this is nothing but, again, being able to retain and expand that wallet share. So, yeah, I don't think they're worried about deal, which is good for deal, but they definitely should know about deal just from an acquisition standpoint. Because again, if anybody has the cash to do it, ADP has the cash to do it.
Joel (21:29.454)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (21:38.412)
Ha
Joel (21:53.422)
Interestingly, ADP is a public company. The market more or less yawned about this deal. take that for what it's worth. I mean, it's just like maybe it's just a fly on the ass of an elephant. Also unlike stock twits, which is really normally a cornucopia of bullshit and crazy stuff, like nothing on this deal. take that for what it's worth. But on that note, let's take this thing down under, shall we?
Chad (22:00.341)
Which is good. Which is good.
Joel (22:22.264)
Take it down under SEEK. SEEK has entered an exclusivity agreement to potentially acquire XREF for about 28 million US dollars aiming to broaden its service in HR tech, specifically employment verification. The deal's progression depends on due diligence and negotiation with XREF's board open to recommending acquisition to shareholders if conditions are met. However,
Chad (22:22.611)
The land down under.
Joel (22:48.642)
Completion isn't guaranteed as discussions continue. Chad, your thoughts on this impending deal.
Chad (22:55.573)
So remember when I was a fan of Seek pulling out of Latin America, which would give them more of a chance to focus on markets they actually know? Now Seek's integration with Xref, implemented earlier this year in June, allows employers using Seek to request reference checks provided by Xref. So going down funnel, integrating reference checks is smart. Going down funnel is smart. This move is smart. If you offer an easy way to post jobs,
Joel (23:05.208)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (23:24.829)
acquire talent, then reference check that talent all in one platform. Ta-da, that's a winner. There are 2.5 million SMEs in Australia and around half million in New Zealand. That's your prime target because most of the bigger companies already have reference check, background companies, those relationships in play. So Australia and New Zealand are, they're not large markets. And even though we've got plenty of
People that tell us, well, Seek is big in APAC too. It's all well and good, but those markets are all incredibly fragmented. APAC speaks a ton of different languages. They have a ton of different cultures and yes, there's money to be had there, but Seek needs to keep it simple. I like the idea of Seek not just owning the land down under candidate acquisition side, but also driving down funnel with the prospect of reference checks.
background checks and just again, there's more money down funnel. And I think seek, this is a smart, smart seek move. And you don't hear that often from me.
Joel (24:29.312)
Mm-mm-mm. Down funnel at the down under.
So you mentioned earlier, the by builder partner question. And I think that it's, it's sort of fascinating on this week's show. And a theme that we've had is that companies are sort of struggling with, we buy, build or partner on some of this stuff? And we, talked about a zip intro a couple of weeks ago, about a month ago and zip, zip seems to be married to, we're going to build it like, damn the torpedoes. We're going to build it. We're not going to partner, no marketplace, no acquisitions. Like that's their strategy. I am more and more,
Chad (24:39.048)
Mmm, yeah.
Chad (24:47.924)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (25:05.142)
job boards, think are struggling with, okay, what do, what are we going to be when we grow up? We're getting pushed from the commoditization, the, the programmatic side. you know, merger, let's just merge, let's just get two dinosaurs together and hope that we can, we can wait it out. Zip or seek in this case, interestingly is saying we're going to buy stuff, which we used to see all the time in the job board space where there's a crib builder buying everybody, or monster seek is on the same path. And I think that.
to your point, you can't just be post jobs, look at resumes, here's some review stuff. And you just, have to be more than that to your customers. And if your customers love you, should be able to get them on these other products and services because they love you and their sales rep. And yeah, it's like, so, so if you get them in, you know, if you get them in, if you get them in deep, then it should be something you can do. I do think interestingly, I think you mentioned this, X
Chad (25:47.763)
like ADP does.
Joel (26:02.698)
XRF clients extend beyond, you know, Australia and sort of their sphere of influence. So this is just a Trojan horse to kind of get seek in other markets and work with other companies. Cause it's really easy to just put jobs up on Google for jobs and start showing traffic from this service and getting money from that. So yeah, I think this is smart. It's not done yet. Usually when deals aren't done yet, there's like somebody leaks something.
Chad (26:28.243)
Nobody says anything. Yeah.
Joel (26:28.974)
Somebody want like, somebody said, Hey, we're kind of looking, will this like new buyer might come in someone else, get a better price. Like that's kind of it. We rarely hear about leaks in our industry. but you know, Australia is Australia. Somebody got stung by a spider and lost their shit and told, told a reporter somewhere who knows, but yeah, I like, I like this deal. I like that seek is focusing on more important things than, Latin America, which they know nothing about.
And this is a good step forward. It's, it's a lesson that maybe zip recruiter could learn something in there and their strategic. Because they they've done some crazy shit lately.
Chad (27:01.897)
Hmm... Hmm...
Chad (27:09.257)
Ridiculous, Phil.
Joel (27:10.304)
All right, quick break and we'll talk minimum wage.
Joel (27:19.214)
Chad, was the last time you were in New Jersey? I've been in New Jersey in a long time. I guess the ICEMS meeting, was that the last time? Yeah. Edison. Yeah. I haven't been, I haven't been in New York in like five years. It's awful. I love New York. It's terrible. Okay. Well, let's get to the news. New Jersey's minimum wage will rise to $15 and 49 cents per hour. It's a very exact number. on January 1st of 2025, thanks to a constitutional
Chad (27:23.023)
probably the last ISIMS. Yeah, the last ISIMS meeting. I mean, don't go there often, but you know, if I am, it's generally a good ISIMS meeting.
Chad (27:35.086)
wow, yeah.
Joel (27:48.888)
cost of living adjustment. this, critics say the wage might still fall short of a living wage in some areas, prompting discussions about further increases. They may have a point. A new UC Berkeley study found that California's new $20 minimum wage for fast food workers resulted in an 18 % wage increase without, and I underscore without, significant job losses.
or price hikes. law led to a small one-time price increase largely absorbed by customers like you and me, suggesting overall it was a positive economic impact. Chad, what are your thoughts on some of the highlights on minimum wage this week?
Chad (28:32.147)
Now we've talked about this before. You pay your people more, they can buy more shit. That's how capitalism works, kids. If we're not paying people enough, they can't go buy stuff, right? They can only put money into their rent. The things that they need, gas, water, those types of things, basic food essentials. The thing that bothers me about this is they say this is a cost of living adjustment. Well, their cost of living adjustment sucks because if you take a look at
$15.49 an hour, working 40 hours a week is $32,200 a year, 32,000. The living wage for a single adult is 51,000. They're not even close. So how's that a cost of living adjustment? And if you're a single adult, so let's say you're a single mom with a kid, the living wage is $43.67 an hour.
In New Jersey. So this cost of living adjustment to me seems like more fluff. Yes, people are getting more money, but it's not enough to live on. And we need to, we need to do that. And if we give those people more to live on, again, we're going to juice the economy. need to push, we need to push, not trickle, push the money from the top to the middle, to the bottom, so that those people can have great lives instead of shitty lives, trying to scrap and work three or four jobs. Yeah.
eating meatloaf if they're lucky.
Joel (30:06.51)
So a quick reminder, the federal minimum wage is still $7 and 25 cents an hour. It hasn't changed in 25 years. so that's multiple people, multiple parties in the white house, multiple parties and part in Congress. Nothing's been done. and sadly we are days away, from a presidential election. And this has hardly been an issue that we're talking about. We're talking about like not.
Chad (30:13.311)
ridiculous.
Chad (30:18.037)
2008.
Chad (30:22.143)
Yep.
Joel (30:35.918)
taxing tips. That's great. But how about a how about a more homogenous solution? How about something more inclusive of everybody? Like, let's make sure the dishwasher in the back, you know, of the kitchen gets paid and not just the waitstaff that's out serving the customers. Like that seems like a better conversation to me call me crazy. Come Kamala is on record of $17 an hour. That's progress.
That's progress. Trump has had nothing in terms of rhetoric or policy of doing anything. Trump's been in the White House. Kamala is in the White House. Nothing has been done in that seven and a half years that those two have. Something needs to give. 25 years is ridiculous for the largest economy in the world not to increase the minimum wage.
All right. That's my, that's my sump speech. it's been way too long. It's stupid onto the, the California law. You and I nailed this one. We nailed it. said, look, companies are going to cry, squeal like lobby payoff, whoever they had to, get this done. And it would, and it would not, this would not be nearly as bad as they, this would not be dogs and cats, cows falling from the sky.
Chad (31:49.301)
And they did.
Chad (31:57.395)
Nope. Nope.
Joel (31:58.784)
Everything would be okay. All right. People have more money. When the lower end of the poverty, when lower in the spectrum gets money, they spend it. When the higher end gets it, they put it in a, you know, a 5 % savings account, T-bills and whatever. Okay. So if you put more money in the hands of the workers, more money goes into the system. That's what's happening in California. In this case, I hope it starts happening in New Jersey and other places that this, hopefully the States can adopt this stuff because the federal government clearly isn't going to get on board with this stuff.
Chad (32:08.307)
Yes.
Chad (32:22.175)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (32:28.366)
in and out was the story or one of the, one of the companies that they, that they highlighted burgers went up very little bit now in and out is an exception. They are a remarkable business, but they were really hard lined on. We're not going to increase that much. pay our workers a lot already and that's not a big deal, but not everyone went out of business. This was not a disaster. This was fine. And we need to eventually, in my opinion, get to a $25 minimum wage per hour federal law.
Chad (32:37.471)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (32:58.318)
end of story, hard stop. California is really close. The world has not ended. They'll get to 25 at some point and we'll find that the world does not end. If you're a shitty business, you're a shitty business. and if you're a good business, you can pay people a good wage. it's okay to pay a little bit more for that barbacoa bowl or that nacho Supreme. Trust me. Trust me. I've not, I have not suffered at all when I visited these States.
Chad (33:10.793)
Yeah.
Chad (33:25.543)
I, here's the thing. mean, 11 % of the U S is in poverty. We are the strongest nation in the world, 33 million people. And these are people who are working in many cases. We call them the working poor. They're working their asses off. Right? I do believe the federal stance just to be able to force the state's hands to be able to make them pay more. We definitely need to raise the federal.
Joel (33:35.608)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (33:54.677)
But we we should actually pass laws that focus on what a living wage is and being able to you know Being able to parallel against living wages and the whole no tax on tips thing That's total fucking bullshit man because most of those people don't pay taxes on those tips They don't they don't qualify to pay taxes on those in the first place. So I mean, it's it's literally it's it's a it's a mirage, right? It's something it's it's a great stump for stump speeches
Yay, that's great for my, yeah, it's bullshit. Do the big stuff. And you're 100 % right. We've had Republicans and we've had Democrats in office ever since Ron Reagan's dumb ass did this fucking trickle down economic shit and nobody's fixed it yet. And nobody's fixed it yet. He's rolling over in his grave. I don't care.
Joel (34:23.66)
It's jazz hands. It's jazz hands. Yep.
Joel (34:41.804)
Yeah. And, you know, so you mentioned, you mentioned, the number of, of, poor people below the poverty line. Mark Cuban has a great point in that look, you're either going to pay in taxes when entitlements and, you're going to pay them a higher wage. Frankly, I'd rather them work for a living, get a higher wage and make a living wage. I, this is both sides should be able to come together on this. It's, unfortunate that it's become so polarized polarized. Well, speaking of cities,
Chad (34:54.576)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Chad (35:00.319)
Yeah, yeah.
Chad (35:10.91)
Amen.
Joel (35:11.788)
I haven't been to in a while. Let's talk about Tulsa, Oklahoma. They've successfully countered a brain drain with what they're calling Tulsa Remote. They're offering 10K for remote workers to relocate for a year. They've attracted over 3,300 participants. This initiative has not only saved participants significant housing costs,
But also brought substantial tax revenue to the city and state showcasing a model for urban revitalization through remote work incentives. Chad, your thoughts on Tulsa's Tulsa remote.
Chad (35:51.997)
Yeah, I love this. And this is from the New York Post last year. Quote, most of the remoters are staying put. According to Tulsa Remote, 90 % of the participants have remained past the required year and nearly 500 have bought homes. End quote. So yes, they're taking the brain drain. And what that means kids, brain drain is when all of...
your knowledge is leaving the state, right? And they're having a brain gain. So they're bringing them back. As of December, 2022, Tulsa remote participants generated 563.6 million in direct employment income for the city of Tulsa, according to their economic impact report. Also, there were at this, at the point of this report, there were 2,819 participants. They paid
10,000 each, totaling to a little over $28 million. And again, the result is $563.6 million in direct employment income. Where does that money go? In 2023, it was estimated that Tulsa Remote was responsible for a presence of an estimated 3,554 full-time equivalent jobs in Tulsa County.
253 were program members and the additional ones were actually local jobs created by this, by the need for household spending, right? Significant gains in healthcare, restaurants, retail, real estate, et cetera, et cetera. Here's the fun part. Tulsa Remote, the new remoters in 2023 came from 45 different states, eight different countries and overall have grown
Joel (37:25.582)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (37:42.402)
Hmm.
Chad (37:43.697)
more diverse, that population, more diverse, 53 % have identified as a part of an underrepresented racial and ethnic group in 2023. What's happening here, kids, is there's a little stipend, $10,000, seems like a lot, 28 million, but it's bringing hundreds of millions into an economy. It's juicing the economy. So when we were talking about juicing the economy with minimum wage and actually boosting that so that they spend it,
Joel (38:10.83)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (38:13.557)
Tulsa's saying it, they're just going above and beyond, not just for the people that live there now, but they're drawing people into Tulsa. And I mean, when's the last time you actually said, not that I don't love me some Tulsa, but when's the last time you actually said, you know, I think I'm gonna relocate to Tulsa. Not many people say that. You get a program like this and they're like, hey, this sounds like a good idea. 500 homes bought, it's amazing.
Joel (38:25.133)
Uh-huh.
Chad (38:39.538)
Amazing.
Joel (38:40.93)
No, I have never said, I'm going to pack up and move to Tulsa. However, the Joel of the mid nineties may have, may have thought like, Hey, why not? Fuck it. I'll go to Tulsa work. so if I'm a young person, this is very interesting. And we've heard other States do this. think Burlington, I mean, there's been other cities that you can Google it. I'm sure, but, does much, it better be more than 10 K to get me to move.
Chad (38:50.741)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Chad (39:03.687)
Muncie, Indiana has like a small program. Yeah. Yeah.
Joel (39:10.19)
to Muncie, I say that my wife will get a job at Ball State and I'll live in Muncie for my, my, my silver year. forms of this have been going for a long time. colleges and states, state schools have said, Hey, if you stay in the state for a certain period of time, we'll forgive your loan or part of your loan. or you go to school for free in some, some States, think like, West Virginia, if you have a certain GPA and you stay in the state, you can go to school for free.
So we in America have a really interesting dynamic in that we have little competitive corporations known as states that compete each other, can be with each other for talent and resources and everything else. And most countries don't have that privilege or that luxury. And whether it's minimum wage where, California does it, everything's okay. or, you know, Colorado is weed, like everything's okay.
And so these things get worked out and then competition comes into play and states and places are better for it. So I salute Tulsa. think more states should, or more cities should do things like this. More States, competition is good for business. That's what my, my, econ teacher told me. what's interesting and you've pointed out is the international flavor of this, like to, to, appeal to, I don't know, someone in Germany to go to Tulsa.
Chad (40:16.021)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (40:31.986)
And like work remotely from there. that's really interesting that they can do that. And I think is more countries, Germany's in a two year recession. For example, we've talked about the UK having issues with, you know, demographics, like there's opportunity for the world to come into America via Tulsa, and grow that economy and make it, make it great. So the only downsides are like, if I live in Tulsa,
Chad (40:42.453)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (40:55.994)
And this schmo next to me like moved into town last month and he's getting 10k and I've been here my whole life like what's up with that like give me some money so the that's I could see some some local rivalries or some trash talking about like nice. If you get if you get the 10k you better go buy that guy a nice bottle of bourbon to make him make him
Chad (41:16.757)
Well, I think you're spending money in his community in the first place, making it a thriving community instead of making it a shitty community. So at the end of the day, they're actually doing them a service. But here's the big thing. Usually what the government does is they give money in forms of tax breaks to companies, right? And that's literally corporate welfare. They're giving them corporate welfare. Instead of that, what I love about this is they're giving the people the money.
Joel (41:24.331)
Uh-huh.
Joel (41:36.836)
huh. Yeah. Yeah.
Joel (41:45.9)
Yeah.
Chad (41:46.601)
The people should have the power to be able to do all these things and again, juice the economy. So to me, this is an entirely different set up. It's been running for years and we are, starting to see other cities, not really states, but cities start to try to emulate this. It's really cool.
Joel (42:03.854)
Yeah, it is cool. You're giving my neighbor way too much credit for understanding the big picture on this stuff. wants, he wants his bottle of bourbon.
Chad (42:11.441)
I know, I know, fucking stupid humans.
Joel (42:14.67)
We'll be right back.
Joel (42:20.468)
Alright, speaking of stupid humans...
Chad (42:24.797)
Mmm.
Joel (42:28.558)
All right. Tennessee factory worker, Johnny Peterson's family has sued Impact Plastics and its CEO after he died in flooding from Hurricane Helene, alleging the company forced workers to stay despite severe weather warnings while managers left early, highlighting inadequate safety measures during the disaster. Specifically, founder and CEO Gerald O'Connor had quote,
stealthily exited the building, end quote, according to court papers. Peterson was 55 years old. He is survived by a wife and two kids. Chad, your thoughts.
Chad (43:08.057)
It's really simple. We need to break out the orange jumpsuits. mean, owners and all leaders are responsible for their workers' safety. Again, owners and all leadership are responsible for their workers' safety. Gerald O'Connor and all impact plastic leaderships should be sitting in the Johnson County jail right now. We have to put a priority.
on our people, which we have not been doing for many, many years. We put it on the top and those motherfuckers get away with shit. We can't do that anymore. We've got to throw them in jail. Maybe, you know, very high bail, maybe no bail, but at the end of the day, people died. This isn't they had a bad day. This is they died.
Joel (43:54.84)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth until someone's in an orange jumpsuit. this issue is, not going to go away. And I fear that is as climate change makes these incidents more, prevalent in our lives that we're going to hear more about workers getting hurt. Killed in this case, because of bad management, not taking into account, the workers.
that they take, you know, that they, that they hold in their hands. the suit is, suit is heartbreaking. they, they, the account of Peterson's final moments, including text messages with his family. he revealed that he would not escape the floodwaters. he had stepped in back in the building to help employees, other employees who were trapped inside, but he eventually became trapped himself after the water made it impossible to leave the car. he texted his daughter.
Chad (44:29.705)
Yeah, it is.
Joel (44:52.994)
quote, I love you all. That was it. that was all he managed to type out before the water, I guess took his life. So just a horrible story. These are real lives. Jobs are jobs. They come and go lives. You only get one. And my, my heart, know yours as well. Chad goes out to his family, that they survive this and hopefully get some, some justice in court. But yeah, let's see some, some orange jumpsuits if this happens again, if not in this case, no dad jokes.
This week, Chad, life is precious. Instead, go call a loved one. I'm calling my dad. Maybe he'll have a good joke for me in next week's We out.
Chad (45:23.509)
Mm.
Chad (45:28.841)
Give a big hug.
Chad (45:33.545)
We out.
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