Welcome to the Chat and Cheese Podcast's holiday extravaganza, where HR gossip meets holiday cheer — and no one is safe. It’s like your company holiday party, but with more alcohol and fewer awkward dance moves (maybe).
Holiday Coal Recipients:
The Master of Deception
The Corporate Grinch
The Kings of "Almost There"
Holiday Heroes:
The Billion-Dollar Badass
The Pop Powerhouse
The Viral Appetizer Wizard
Final Thought:
Whether you’re running from accountability or running the world, Chad & Joel see you. In a year filled with corporate antics, unlikely successes, and viral cheese pulls, they’ve made their holiday list — and checked it twice.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Joel (00:27.893)
AWWWEEEEEE YEEEEEEEEAAAAAHHHH!
Joel (00:34.254)
Yeah, we're making a list and checking it twice. Who's ready for some naughty and nice? Hi kids, this is the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel Shitters Full Cheesman.
Chad (00:46.626)
This is Chad, give me some of that mulled wine. Sowash?
Joel (00:51.48)
And on this week's episode, a little naughty, a little nice, and Santa's little helper makes a guest appearance. Let's do this.
Chad (01:03.672)
So Julie would not be happy right now because we are, yeah, take a look, because we're matching and whenever, yeah, yes, yes, and whatever. He will never match me. Just so that you know, listener, this was not planned. This was not planned. I don't even match with my wife. She wants to wear like matching track suit suits and shit like that. Not doing it. So for all the listeners out there who are not watching on YouTube,
Joel (01:05.654)
Why's that?
Joel (01:10.806)
It's this.
Joel (01:19.064)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joel (01:30.146)
Yeah.
Chad (01:32.472)
Joel and I are wearing our factory fix Mary fix miss Little ugly sweaters, which are not sweaters Tell him about tell him about these sexy factory fix sweaters that aren't that aren't ugly quality
Joel (01:35.784)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Very, very sexy.
Joel (01:47.444)
Yeah. I mean, a sweater as I assume all of our listeners have worn a sweater at some point in their life. the wool even caught, whatever the material is tends to be kind of itchy. doesn't really stretch or move with you very well. These look like sweat sweaters, but they're, don't even know the material. It's like a rayon stretchy athleisure. I could go jogging in this if I ever jogged, if someone was chasing me.
Chad (01:52.354)
Mm.
Chad (01:56.34)
itchy.
yeah.
Chad (02:09.148)
At leisure? Like you ever jogged. If Taco Bell was at the front door, you would jog to the front door.
Joel (02:17.09)
This would be the sweater I would want to
Yes. If the ice cream truck turned into the Taco Bell truck and drove down the street, I might get my track shoes on. Otherwise, not so much.
Chad (02:33.371)
shit. So what's going on? What's going on this holiday season at the Cheeseman household?
Joel (02:38.638)
Yeah, we've got, you know, this is listeners know my, my oldest is 18. So this should be the last, like he has to attend Christmas. So, divorced, so we don't get the big kids, my daughter and son, till later in the morning, which leaves my seven year old to like grit his teeth and open one or two presents and wait for his brother and sister. So that'll be, that'll be challenging.
Chad (02:45.73)
poll.
Chad (03:08.76)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (03:08.814)
dad, who lives nearby, as a lot of, know, we'll come and hang out with us. We'll watch basketball and eat really good stuff. did talk my wife into making a beef Wellington, which is probably my favorite thing that she makes. So doing that. then, this weekend, I didn't, I don't think, know, this, the wife and the young guy, we're going to take a little weekend trip to New York.
Chad (03:15.501)
Yup.
Chad (03:21.778)
that's nice. That is nice.
Chad (03:27.402)
huh.
Chad (03:34.109)
well that's Yeah.
Joel (03:34.734)
We got some points on Delta. got some points on the hotels. We're like going to take a really cheap. I haven't been in New York in like five years. It's one of my favorite cities. So looking forward to that. The little kid gets to the Statue of Liberty, Empire State Building, all that good stuff. And we're going to go see Elf on Broadway or off Broadway, off or on Broadway. I don't know the difference. I don't really know, really know musicals. Yeah. Got to see the tree and all that good stuff. And then,
Chad (03:42.776)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (03:48.354)
That's awesome. Yeah.
yeah, yeah. Go to Rockefeller. You gotta see the tree. yeah. Mm. So awesome.
Joel (04:01.966)
A couple of days after Christmas, we're all driving down, not my dad, but all the kids and us were going to Orlando to hang out in an Airbnb with the Canadians, her family, and her parents. pray for me on that one. Pray for me. Pray for me on that one. A lot of kids and adults and a lot of alcohol. It could get ugly. It could get ugly. How about you in Portugal?
Chad (04:10.68)
Okay.
Chad (04:19.924)
in or yeah Orlando or Lando. Yes, yes. Well, we actually have family and friends that are coming here to the Algarve for Christmas. So plenty of paddle Christmas Eve dinners plan Christmas brunch Christmas dinner Christmas hikes. So a lot of kayaking just stuff.
Joel (04:32.366)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (04:46.486)
Right. We got we and obviously a lot of drinking. Right. So they so then we're to be hopping in the van. That's for Christmas. We're going to spend Christmas here. Then we're going to be hopping in the van and taking everybody to Marbella on the southern coast of Spain for New Year's. We've never been there. Really excited to go there. We just went to Cadiz about a month or so ago. And that was amazing. So we're really looking really looking forward to that. And I mean, just plenty of food, drinking activities, love having family and friends here to share a little slice of.
Joel (04:53.89)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (05:16.172)
The Soosh paradise.
Joel (05:17.71)
Did you say Christmas hiking?
Chad (05:20.536)
You gotta see it's it's it's a beautiful. It's a beautiful beautiful scene beautiful scene. It's a gift to all your senses
Joel (05:27.128)
What is that about? and, and are we at peak peak euro Chad? Kind of like from here on out, it's, it's the, the, does the clock start ticking to your time back in the U S
Chad (05:37.168)
haha
See, I don't know because never been here before. We now have residency so we can come and go as we please. Before I had to stay out, right, for a certain amount of time. So I can come and go as we please. I guess the listeners will have to kind of like chime in and let me know if American Chad, US Chad comes back, comes creeping back.
Joel (05:45.964)
Okay. Yeah.
Joel (06:03.042)
Well, let me lobby the listeners right now to say, keep Chad in Portugal. We like Euro Chad. Euro Chad is cool, laid back. He's, he's all good. He's all good. I'll lobby the listeners for that.
Chad (06:14.9)
I don't have US news to watch over here, which is great. It's easier to get away from, let's just say that.
Joel (06:20.074)
And, and, and I can lobby a lot of the listeners because I'm sending free shit to the listeners on a regular basis. Chad for the no shout outs this week, cause it's not your nice, Chad, let's, let's tell the listeners if you haven't signed up what they're missing with free stuff from Chad and cheese.
Chad (06:24.726)
Ha ha ha!
Chad (06:28.736)
Yes.
Chad (06:37.856)
Really simple kids, if you don't go to chadcheese.com slash free, you can't win. This is how you register. T-shirts by Aaron App, they're not those scratchy ones. They're the nice, soft, silky ones that feel like a hug from Chad and Cheese. Bourbon barrel aged syrup from Keyura. We're not doing shout outs this week, so we gotta double down on the Keyura. Hence the syrup.
Joel (07:00.472)
That's right. They're, they're from Canada, Chad. I don't know if you mentioned that or not. Hence the maple syrup.
Chad (07:07.692)
beer by Aspen Tech Labs, craft beer sent to your doorstep, craft Aspen Tech Labs. Two bottles of whiskey from our friends at Tex Kernel powered by now Bullhorn. And if it's your birthday, you get a little rum possibly from Plum, but you gotta go to ChadCheese.com slash free to register. If you don't play, you can't win.
Joel (07:21.898)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (07:32.012)
That's right, Chad. Some listeners are celebrating another year around the sun. I'm just going to finish out the month for all the birthdays in December. got Holland McHugh, Jack Mahoney, Monica Evgy, Nick Bradford, Allison Padgett, Michael Smith, Mike Polatic, Fazla M.T.S., Tina Davis, Angela Aguilar, Jeffrey Tainton, Nick Hutchinson, Kim Gray, Max Armbruster, Alex Micklin, Lex Kramer,
Chad (07:32.319)
Chad (07:36.152)
Mmm.
Chad (07:46.667)
Joel (07:58.734)
Phil Larkins, Ali Raza, Christina Lowry, Craig Rhodes, he's on the 25th, that sucks. Daniel Gailey, Jonathan Martinez, Kelly Hervnick, Dom Rafidi, Kerry Corcoran, Dan Lockhart, Molly Mulvey, Curtis Pixel, Nicky McKee, Herard Mulder, you mentioned Tex Colonel. And last but definitely not least, my father celebrates.
Chad (08:02.904)
Ooh, wow. Yeah, that's like.
Chad (08:19.138)
There he is. There he is.
Mm hmm. Yes. Will the man cheeseman.
Joel (08:26.734)
85 years on planet Earth. This week actually so happy birthday to them and shout out quick shout out to all the people posting the pics of t-shirts asking for liquor like we love we love the shares on LinkedIn so keep keep that up.
Chad (08:33.399)
Awesome.
Chad (08:38.06)
Yes.
Chad (08:42.282)
I you were going to say post and pics of tits. I was going say I didn't see those, so can you forward those to me?
Joel (08:51.63)
Which brings us to more naughtiness.
Chad (08:57.047)
Yes.
Joel (08:58.722)
Fantasy football with our friends at factory fix. Thanks for the Christmas sweaters. Well, the regular season is over Chad, which leaves us with the playoffs. All right. Our championship semi-final. is the final four. If you will. We've got David Stiefel versus Dean, the daddy Mac Mackerel, who's been running away with this. He is the favorite at this point. then we've got to match it. Got it. Yeah. yeah.
Chad (09:04.289)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (09:10.082)
for.
Chad (09:18.329)
Ooh. Yes. Takes one bad week though. Takes one bad week. Yes. Yes.
Joel (09:26.478)
Any, any given Sunday, I'll tell you a fantasy will kick your ass. and then, and then it's you and me. I don't know how that happened. It's not rigged people. We don't have, we haven't hacked Yahoo fantasy. it is totally organic. And then we've got our best of the worst playoffs. We've got a Dean apparel last year's champion. she's, she's still fighting there at the bottom. She's going to go against Laura Martinelli. And then the second matchup we've got.
Chad (09:33.558)
I don't know.
Chad (09:46.392)
Champ, yeah.
Joel (09:52.686)
Kristy Lisbon versus Keith the commish Sonderling. He's heartbroken that he didn't quite make the semi-final of the championship round. Yeah. Yeah, that was.
Chad (09:56.344)
I smashed his ass last week. it was horrible. I almost scored 200 points. He was barely, I think, over 100. So yeah, it was bad for him.
Joel (10:07.99)
Yeah. Yeah, that was rough. And then we got the, the bottom, the bottom for, the big losers. we got action Jackson, who was the factory fix representative. He's at number nine, Sean Horton. Here's a who he started from the bottom. Didn't quite make it to the top, but he's not the big loser that we thought he might be followed by Jennifer Terry Tharp. And of course the man who loves the bottom, if you know what I'm saying, Adam Gordon.
Chad (10:24.664)
Ha ha!
Good job, Sean.
Jen.
Chad (10:35.064)
You
He's our favorite bottom.
Joel (10:38.21)
Who's, who's blaming all of it on the fact that, punters don't make it into fantasy lineups and he couldn't draft the Scottish, Scottish punter for his team. anyway, there's no next year for you, Adam. Sorry. you have to win it to be back in. You had your shot. It's over. go, go back to rugby. Yeah. Maybe McGrath will let him in and see if he can do better than last.
Chad (10:50.104)
That's awesome. That's awesome.
Chad (10:57.516)
Get McGrath in next year.
Chad (11:02.456)
Yeah, we'll see. We'll give Scotland another chance, not you, Adam. That was horrible. That was bad. That was bad as Jasper last year. my God. Naughtiness.
Joel (11:06.486)
Yeah, see if, if he can do better than last place for God's sakes. Geez. No shit. No shit. Well, let's.
Joel (11:19.852)
Let's get into some naughtiness. That's right. If you're listening for the first time, here's, here's how this is going to work. Kids, Chad and are both going to talk about some of our naughty and nice lists. we have a guest, naughty, naughty Lister and, that's it. That's the show. there's not a ton of news this time of year. So this is a fun way for us to just sort of get off, get off our chest, some assholes, from the air and, and highlight some, some good folks. So.
Chad (11:23.256)
I'm done.
Chad (11:38.273)
It's easy.
Chad (11:45.592)
Some good folk.
Joel (11:48.204)
My number one naughty, Illit Raz. Who the fuck is Illit Raz? Well, this year's naughty for me is kind of a part two. Listeners will probably remember last year's Jive Turkey show, which included Junco. Well, the dumpster fire continued to rage in 2024. So let's do a little recap for listeners of Junco in 2022.
Chad (11:53.302)
again.
Chad (11:56.888)
Mmm.
Chad (12:00.928)
Yes.
Joel (12:13.422)
Junco was riding the DEI train high on the hog. raised 25 million for their quote unquote automated sourcing tool for underrepresented candidates. They had raised a total of $38.5 million. They had a really who's who list of investors, people from Etsy and high profile names, et cetera. So let's go to 2023 when they made our turkeys list. Raz, the founders accused by the board of having
Chad (12:19.384)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (12:35.394)
Yeah.
Joel (12:43.214)
quote, engaged in a grary egregious, unethical, and fraudulent conduct after an investigation found that she had allegedly allegedly misled investors, regarding the company's actual customer list. she made up a few like Walmart and some high profile names. Apparently, that's, that's something you shouldn't do as a founder. Don't tell your investors you have, have clients that aren't, aren't really your clients. Now let's go to 2024.
Chad (12:49.738)
Ouch. Ouch.
Chad (12:54.871)
Hmm.
Chad (13:10.679)
Good call. Good call. Yes.
Joel (13:12.984)
where the naughtiness is kind of coming to a head. Yes, there is more. The SEC, yes, that SEC has charged Raz with securities fraud and wire fraud for allegedly defrauding investors and misleading them about core aspects of the company. But wait, Chad, there's more. There's more. The US Attorney's Office is getting into the game. They've announced criminal charges with a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison for Raz. But wait, Chad, there's more.
Chad (13:20.194)
Hello.
Joel (13:42.606)
There's even more to this naughty, naughty story. Raz is suing the company, suing the company for $300,000 in not covering her legal expenses. So let's recap.
Chad (13:52.235)
Okay.
Joel (14:02.176)
Illit Raz is very naughty. She is an Israeli. We think she's an Israel. She's an Israeli citizen. Chances are she won't be coming to the US anytime soon because there's a lot of people out there that are not falling for the banana in the tailpipe. And hopefully this is the end for her.
Chad (14:09.452)
Citizen? Yeah.
Chad (14:25.346)
Weird.
Joel (14:25.388)
stealing from investors. By the way, we knew at least one employee that was laid off. A lot of people were impacted. She scammed the whole system and she is naughty, naughty, naughty.
Chad (14:31.01)
Yeah, yeah.
Chad (14:40.702)
Yeah, it sounds like a orange jumpsuit is coming her way.
Joel (14:45.004)
Yeah. Do they wear orange in Israel? I don't, I don't know exactly what's going on.
Chad (14:48.6)
I don't know, but if they extradite her, and I think we do have extradition with Israel.
Joel (14:53.324)
Yes. Yes. Israel does play nice. Does play nice. Although she's probably pretty small fish in the big scheme of things. Although the SEC and, justice department are pretty, pretty big deals. All right. Well, let's, let's get past the naughty and get to some nice for me this year. show Wang, show Wang makes my nice list. So who the fuck is that? Well, she's the 35 year old co-founder and chief revenue officer of deal. That's D E E L one of our.
Chad (15:02.828)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (15:22.072)
favorite companies. You've probably heard of them if you listen to the show. She's also now number 39 on Forbes richest women list with an estimated net worth of $1.2 billion. $1.2 billion for some context, that's the net worth of Madonna, the queen of pop. Everyone will know who Madonna is. Less than five years after its founding,
Chad (15:31.736)
39?
Chad (15:47.788)
hope so.
Joel (15:49.582)
A deal surpassed 500 million in revenue. I think they're up to 700 is the last quote I think you get out there. They've made some incredible acquisitions. After moving to China, after moving to the US from China at the age of 16, she sold scooters at flea markets in high school. Then she went to study robotics at MIT. She co-founded an air purification company before founding Deal. Did I mention she's only 35, by the way?
Chad (15:51.948)
Good.
Chad (15:56.457)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Chad (16:16.898)
Jeez.
Joel (16:18.562)
She also hires too. talk a lot about founders who should be hiring all the time. She personally interviewed the first 400 employees at deal to quote, help cultivate and maintain a consistent corporate culture. Youth. She's an immigrant. She's a woman. She's a bad ass for all this and more. Wang makes my nice list for 2024.
Chad (16:21.976)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Chad (16:33.367)
Yeah.
Chad (16:42.42)
Nice whoo, that's a big one. That's a very big one. Well awesome
Joel (16:47.266)
That is a big one. think deal may make my predictions list, Chad. That's coming out soon. Deal might make my predictions less, but let's get to your first nice of 2024.
Chad (16:51.158)
Yeah, imagine that. Yeah, imagine that.
Chad (16:57.644)
Well, well, my on my list coincidentally is another female on that list that you were just talking about. I believe she's she's probably close to number one. Yes, Taylor Swift is on my my nice list. Nobody saw this coming. I get it. I totally get it. One of the reasons why I picked it. But here are some things that I think everybody should know. This from People magazine after 149 shows, Taylor Swift touring confirmed to the New York Times that over 10 million
Joel (17:07.864)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (17:12.27)
Mmm.
Chad (17:26.136)
people attended the Eris tour and that it sold over two billion in total ticket sales making it the best-selling tour of all time and double the gross ticket sales of any other concert in history or should we say herstory. In addition, Swift scored big with an accompanying Taylor Swift the Eris tour book. Imagine that, which sold over 800,000 copies in the first two days.
making it the most successful publishing launch of the year. And Spotify, Apple, and Amazon Music all announced that Swift was the top streamed artist of 2024 and had the top streamed album of the year. Now, over the past two years, Swift gave out 197 million, almost $200 million in bonuses to people working on the tour.
Joel (18:23.416)
That's nice.
Chad (18:23.424)
including truck drivers, caterers, instrument tech, merch team, lighting, sound production staff, assistants, carpenters, everybody, the riggers, the hair people, the makeup people, wardrobe, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Again, all this from people. Last but not least, I may not listen to Taylor Swift, however, I can identify an amazing business person when I see one. Plus, according to
Apex marketing, Swift has effectively, this is gonna tear me up, man, effectively generated an additional $331.5 million in brand value to the Kansas City Chiefs and the NFL. A game you and I both know and love. It's close to our hearts. However, it's not only the NFL that's profiting from Taylor Swift, her effects, right?
Joel (18:56.492)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (19:11.799)
Yeah.
Chad (19:19.532)
those brands associated with Swift are now benefiting from our influence as well, which means obviously they're gonna amplify it a lot more money. I don't have to attend a stadium tour, listen to Swift on Spotify, or even be a Chiefs fan, which I'm not, I enjoy watching them, but I'm not really a Chiefs fan, to respect and admire the business savvy and real impact, not just the US GDP kids.
Joel (19:19.566)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (19:34.552)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (19:46.168)
Yeah.
Chad (19:46.626)
but the surge in economic activity for her tour in the UK has estimated to have injected one billion pounds into the UK economy. She is a global fucking whirlwind, which is why Taylor Swift makes it to my nice list this season. Treat your people well. 200 million.
Joel (20:04.781)
Yeah.
Joel (20:09.354)
And the UK, the UK, the UK needs a little help these days. for sure. Now my, my wife, as you, as you know, I mentioned, went to Toronto to see, Taylor and yes, she, she takes over a city. I know here in Indianapolis who hosted a super bowl, not that long ago. the, the economic impact that she had on the city was greater than the super bowl, when it was in town and you.
Chad (20:13.986)
Yeah. huh. Yep. Yeah.
Chad (20:23.694)
it's amazing.
Chad (20:31.352)
Huge.
Chad (20:35.394)
It's crazy.
Joel (20:35.662)
You may not listen to Taylor, but if you're on Apple music, I know you're Spotify guy, but Apple music will, you can follow people in your friends list. So my, my wife and I are of course friends on Apple music. If I look at my friends playlist, it's all like for a while it was all Taylor Swift. I could not avoid, avoid, avoid Taylor and her many, many albums.
Chad (20:46.466)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (20:53.495)
That's awesome.
And I have to say by proxy, mean, Julie and Kennedy did go see Taylor in Wembley. So, I mean, yes, the knock-on effects pretty much just about every household somehow, some way are being influenced, either spending money or spending time, engagement, because of Taylor Swift. And this, to me, is just, again, I listen to her music, but I don't have to. She kicks ass, man. my God.
Joel (21:26.638)
She kicks ass. And speaking of ladies who kick ass, let's take a quick break and we'll get to some more naughtiness from our friend, JT.
Chad (21:27.704)
She kicks ass. Yes.
Joel (21:42.822)
All right, Chad, we decided that hearing from us was just not enough this year. We had to get a little bit of a guest host come in. So, JT, who our listeners know, will get to know better in the future, chimed in with a couple of her Noddy. She was not able to donate her opinion for the Jive Turkey show. So here is JT's contribution to the Noddy list.
Chad (21:43.17)
That's such a great sound effect.
Chad (21:50.274)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (22:02.176)
Or nice.
Chad (22:59.16)
home.
Joel (23:03.054)
She is concise. She got two in 50 seconds. It'll take us, it'll take us an hour to do a, do three or four.
Chad (23:06.292)
she's not playing games. She's not playing games. She just gave us a lot of homework is what she did. I'm going to go ahead and start out with the BLS stuff and then we'll just, we'll go to AI after that. So first and foremost, JT, 2009 was much worse than it is now. Okay? If want to talk about 20 years ago, mean, 2009 was much worse, especially on the white collar side than it is right now. So for years we've talked about, I mean, in her defense, we've talked about
how the BLS needs to change their bullshit survey methodology, which started in 1915. Yes, 1915. And they need to move toward a more real time or near real time data effect, right? So companies like LinkUp or Aspentech Labs provides nearly real time jobs data as they are constantly monitoring scraping job data directly from corporate sites. The BLS can always adjust their report
real-time numbers against the UI, which is the unemployment insurance numbers to make their adjustments. So hell, even if they kept this stupid survey, injecting real-time jobs data into the fray just makes the data sets better. So yes, the BLS jobs data, which reported 818,000 jobs, fewer jobs between April 20, 2023,
Joel (24:20.494)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (24:29.432)
Yeah.
Chad (24:31.736)
in March 2024, so within a 12 month timeframe, which it's about an average of 68,000 less jobs per month during that year, marking the largest downward revision in the last 15 years. But as reported by senior economist Dean Baker, the revision means we still created a net positive 2.1 million jobs or 172,000 jobs a month. So let's be clear.
The revision makes the job market less strong, but not weak by any stretch of the imagination. And in the end, yes, we need to move past these stupid survey methodologies that are 100 years old, but also keep the big picture of what's really happening with jobs in full view. That's very key. So love what she packaged there, but she made me do a hell of a lot of homework, Joel.
Joel (25:06.839)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (25:31.576)
Sounds like you and JT might have a conversation at some point about all this stuff. Yeah, no one has their finger on the pulse of the job seeker and sort of their opinion and what they're feeling quite like JT. I think that's the tip of the iceberg on the other point that she made with automated two ways, right? Job seekers coming in with AI and employers.
Chad (25:34.466)
we will. it's gonna be great. I love her. She's great.
Joel (25:57.034)
using AI. I've seen some really bad examples of AI, particularly with video, in the interview process. She has way more knowledge than we have on what job seekers are using to like get through pre-screening and get into, the ATSs of companies. But yeah, she's, she's spot on and saying, if the data is not good, it's hard to make decisions, whether it's up or down. It needs to be correct. And when, when a company like links up, link up gets acquired, it's no
Chad (26:04.738)
Yeah.
Joel (26:24.374)
It's no shock to us because the data is better than what we're getting out of out of the government. So kudos to a kudos to JT and happy holidays to her as well. Let's get on to your.
Chad (26:36.088)
Yeah, no, I wanna hit the AI segment that she actually talked about. So, I mean, we're in the very early stages of AI adoption or recruitment, and unless it's blatant, it's really hard to call it misuse. And here's what I mean. Currently, we're in the early editing process for the AI sessions, season two and season three. And after having those conversations with TA leaders and revisiting, or,
Joel (26:40.844)
Hit me. Hit me.
Chad (27:03.852)
through production, through the production process, listening again. I have to say that I couldn't disagree more with JT about experimenting with AI. Remember the black hole? Everybody seems to forget that over the last 20 years of applying for a job, we had this black hole problem where companies cut recruiting resources or didn't flex when they had hiring to be able to have more
Joel (27:13.006)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (27:31.638)
more people actually scale. Now we're hearing amazing stories from General Motors, Rallies and Checkers, Essentia, Healthcare, UPS, who literally just hired 125,000 people in five weeks, These hiring companies are not shying away from AI. They're doubling down. Why? Because they want the black hole ages to be gone and they're using more advanced tech to do that. Will
they have some bad choices. You're goddamn straight they will. Will those bad choices be better than the black hole? You're goddamn right they will be.
Joel (28:12.952)
Did you say Chipotle? I think they're on the AI train as well.
Chad (28:18.68)
Ooh, they are. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Joel (28:22.22)
Yes, you and JT will have a few things to talk about. 2025 is going to be hot. It's going to be hot on Chad and cheese. We're just getting started kids. All let's get to your next your next nice or is this your first nice second I've lost track. What's your nice?
Chad (28:25.11)
I love it.
Chad (28:34.369)
yeah.
I can't, no, my first nice was Taylor. Second nice is the influencer economy. The influencer economy, let's just say over the last few years we've talked about TikTok. Over the last few months we've talked about influencers, especially when companies like AppCast and Adzuna are focusing on leveraging social now and in the near future, but.
We've seen vendors and hiring companies try to leverage social media for over a decade and they just can't get it right. So what was missing? I think we know now, the JTs of the world, right? The influencers. So this from an article in Men's Health, quote, you're gonna love this because it's about Chili's. Chili's is currently seeing a spike in sales.
even as we're living in a time where many fast food and fast casual restaurants are struggling to lure customers in the door. And the company has an appetizer combo that has gone viral on TikTok to thank for it. How? Well, it seems this might have all started with TikToker Irene Kim, who has 500,000 TikTok followers recorded on TikTok reviewing Chili's Triple Dipper Appetizer.
Have you tried that yet? You haven't tried that yet? Okay, okay. I'm sure you will though. Triple Dipper Appetizer. And when she bit into the much larger than average cheese stick, which I can't believe you haven't had yet, the cheese stretched longer than her arm was, right? So the post caught fire with over a million views. And since then, the Triple Dipper is a very inexpensive.
Joel (29:55.136)
not. I have not. Yes.
Joel (30:09.425)
huh.
Chad (30:18.872)
appetizer. So everyone can get out there and play these reindeer games. They're buying the triple dipper. And then they're doing their own version of this on TikTok to the tune of listen to this kids over 150 million million 150 million posts about the triple dipper. What's the impact? Let's face it, chili has chilies has been on the ropes for years now.
with rising costs and low customer traffic, but the success of the triple dipper helped Chili's raise its revenue forecast from 4.55 billion up to 4.75 billion in their forecast. So what's missing from our effects in trying to leverage social media in the past and recruiting? It's influencers. And now we have the influencer economy. Sure, have your CEO say a few words on TikTok.
Joel (31:06.978)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (31:17.344)
now and again, that's great. But if you want real traction, collaborate with influencers to create cool stunts and or motions that can get your brand product services or even job openings in front of engaged audiences. The cool thing is Irene has five hundred thousand followers. Somebody like JT who's in our space. She has one point. I think it's one point to one point four million followers. So if you're not looking at the influencer economy,
Joel (31:38.071)
Mm-hmm.
It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah.
Chad (31:46.688)
and you want to use TikTok and you want to use Instagram and you want to use socials, you're doing it wrong kids. You got to get into the influencer economy.
Joel (31:57.836)
All this time I've been doing it wrong, Chad. I've been putting social shit about indeed. I should have just been recording my lunches. Just record my lunches and I become a social media success.
Chad (31:58.132)
Naked my nice list.
Chad (32:07.744)
You can eat your lunch while you're talking about Indeed. you can meld. there's melding. there's melding.
Joel (32:12.264)
hybrid influencing. There you go. I'm all about it. All about it. Well, let me let me take a pause to grab a snack and we'll be right back with my final naughty of 2024.
Chad (32:20.312)
Mmm.
Joel (32:28.974)
Are you having fun, Chad? I'm having fun. This is a fun episode. I like this one.
Chad (32:31.468)
This is always fun. The naughty and nice, the turkeys, they're always fun. Especially when we can inject a little JT into it because she's always a blast.
Joel (32:38.67)
huh. It's also great because we know no one will listen to the show during the holidays, so we can just be totally stupid. All right, let's get.
Chad (32:43.796)
shut up. Shut up. Okay.
Joel (32:49.454)
Let me get to my last naughty of 2024. Okay. My naughty goes to Gerald O'Connor. Who the fuck is Gerald O'Connor? Well, he's the CEO of Impact Plastics. What the fuck is Impact Plastics? Well, you might remember we talked about them. The company allegedly kept employees at work while Hurricane Helene flooded the company and took seven lives to date. The stories are heartbreaking.
Chad (32:58.04)
Who? I don't know.
Chad (33:09.89)
Dushbag.
Joel (33:18.702)
Google it if you want to ruin your holiday. But there's no question, Gerald O'Connor, who should definitely be in a jumpsuit that's the color of orange next year makes it to the top of my naughty list. I'm going to share a story. This was in Tennessee. This is a local news story about what happened. think it can kind of encapsulate what happened much better than I could have a listen or look.
Chad (33:21.818)
Don't do it. Don't do it.
Joel (34:00.373)
after.
Chad (35:35.512)
Imagine that. that. Yeah, yeah. we're doing so much to help. You're full of shit.
Joel (35:36.76)
Imagine that.
Joel (35:42.528)
It took weeks to find some of the people that died. I mean, this was bad. We talked about it when it first happened. was a father, many kids were impacted, families, as you can imagine. He was able to text as the waters were coming up. He couldn't escape. ended up, he was able to text his daughter. His last text was, love y'all. And that was it. Like how awful is that? Like CEOs need to get a grip. They've lost the script.
Chad (35:45.463)
Yeah?
Chad (35:52.834)
Yes.
Chad (36:01.73)
Yeah.
Joel (36:11.202)
Keeping workers at work when there are natural disasters happening, this is a story that's become too common in our show. And it's a disgrace. It's a disgrace.
Chad (36:20.758)
And how'd that fucker make it through? How'd the CEO make it through? If he's there, and again, this is a leadership issue, if you're gonna be there in demand that somebody's there, you're ass better be there too.
Joel (36:27.629)
Yeah.
Yeah, he allegedly snuck out one of the lawsuits had it in there that he sort of snuck out before I got too bad.
Chad (36:34.806)
Well, I'm gonna tell you right now, he doesn't look incredibly physically fit, so there's no way in hell he swam out of that bitch.
Joel (36:43.374)
He'd look great in a speedo though. I will say that he probably would look great in a speedo. All right, well, that's pretty naughty, Chad. I don't know if you can one up that, but give it a shot.
Chad (36:43.672)
Hahaha
Chad (36:49.334)
Let me know that he had a single.
Is that done? Yes.
I had to focus on an industry naughty and something that I've been railing on for all year and I'm going to continue to do it. I have a group for my next naughty. That's right. Indeed, Zipper, Kidder and AppCast are on my naughty list for not already injecting cost per qualified candidate into the fabric of how companies find and pay for qualified candidates. Yes, cost per click.
Joel (37:11.246)
Hmm.
Chad (37:26.706)
in cost per application were good steps to move away from duration-based models and focus more on pay for performance. I agree. But let's be frank, CPC and CPA not have any real controls in place to measure quality on the front end. When the seeker hits the apply button, there's no control, right?
Joel (37:49.39)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (37:50.444)
Are there algorithms that receive signals from the applicant tracking system to better help target future campaigns? Maybe so, but I've already paid for that fucking candidate that's not qualified, right? So after a company has paid for a load of unqualified clicks or application, which means the company has to waste time digging through all of these candidates, which is not better than what we had back in the old monster days with duration based, right? So cost per qualified candidate.
should already be a standard in the industry, but why isn't it? I think here's an example. Monster didn't change their model until well after Indeed was on the scene and kicked them off the top of the mountain. Why? Monster was distracted by the massive amounts of cash they were pulling in and they didn't guard their flanks, unlike Netflix, who understood that mailing DVDs would one day be overtaken by streaming.
Yes, Monster did buy FlipDog, but they didn't put enough real energy into it to run parallel businesses. So it's easy to understand that money distracts from threats and changing a legacy model, it's not an easy task. I understand that. But fast forward to today, indeed, Zippercruter and AppCast are happily talking about quality. It's all they talk about, right? But they're also...
Joel (38:55.992)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (39:11.854)
Sure.
Chad (39:14.774)
taking the much easier transactional cash instead of screening and delivering quality. So indeed, ZipRecruiter and AppCast have a choice. Do they build tech that will help identify unqualified candidates from qualified and then charge those companies a premium for qualified? Or wait until somebody else figures it out and buy them. And it feels like the latter is happening.
Joel (39:34.552)
Mm-hmm.
Chad (39:41.56)
Why is indeed AppCast and ZipRecruiter on my naughty list? Well, leaders are supposed to innovate. So let's hope in 2025, we see the big dogs actually do some innovation and ZipRecruiter. No, I'm not talking about Phil.
Joel (39:53.912)
Mm-hmm.
Joel (40:01.934)
Zip made my honorable mention, we're not putting in there, but for their stock price, their COO leaving, their CFO leaving. and their innovation is an embarrassment and the CEO is still there. Maybe he'll make our prediction show. I don't know. You'll have to tune in.
Chad (40:07.104)
Okay. yeah.
Chad (40:12.566)
And they're seeing hope still being there. Still being there.
You don't know how many ex zip zip recruiter people have reached out to me over the past year as I've started to talk about this and go, yeah, no, you're right. He should have gone a long time ago.
Joel (40:26.883)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. 25 is looking to be as equally naughty and as equally nice for a lot of people. But speaking of nice, Chad, my dad jokes are a huge hit, which brings us to this week's dad joke. This one, this one's a little naughty. got inspired by the, by the show. All right. What, what do Santa Claus and Bill Cosby have in common? What do Santa Claus and Bill Cosby have in common?
Chad (40:36.024)
Hmm.
Chad (40:43.608)
Are you in your brain? Okay
Chad (40:58.574)
Does it have to do with the jello pop?
Joel (41:01.4)
They both only come while you're sleeping.
Chad (41:04.536)
that was OK. That was good. was bad, bad. But good, yes, it was a little naughty being being roofied is not a little naughty.
Joel (41:08.814)
That was pretty good, right? It was, it was, it was a little naughty, but you know, for this show.
Joel (41:21.256)
you had to go there. You had to go there. Happy holidays, everybody. Thanks for listening. It'll be business as usual as we head into 25, but for now, naughty or nice, we out.
Chad (41:31.97)
We out.