Venkat Janapareddy, CEO of Jobiak promises to take job postings and put them on Google for Jobs, SEO 'em and throw-in a good helping of AI. Can they survive the firing squad?
Gotta listen to this Talroo exclusive to find out.
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Chad: Hey, Joel?
Joel: What up?
Chad: Would you say that companies find it hard to attract the right candidates to apply for their jobs?
Joel: Well, Jobs2Careers thought so.
Chad: Jobs2Careers? You mean Talroo.
Joel: Talroo?
Chad: Yeah, Talroo. T-A-L-R-O-O.
Joel: What is that? Like a cross between talent and a kangaroo?
Chad: Ha-ha, no. It's a cross between talent and recruiting.
Joel: But-
Chad: Talroo is focused on predicting, optimizing, and delivering talent directly to your email or ATS.
Joel: Ah, okay. So it's totally data-driven talent attraction, which means the Talroo platform enables recruiters to reach the right talent at the right time and at the right price.
Chad: Okay, so that was weirdly intuitive but yes. Guess what the best part is?
Joel: Let me take a shot here. You only pay for the candidates Talroo delivers.
Chad: Holy shit. Okay, so you've heard this before. So if you're out there listening in podcast land and you are attracting the wrong candidates, and we know you are. Or you feel like you're in a recruiting hamster wheel and there's just nowhere to go right? You can go to Talroo.com/attract. Again, that's Talroo.com/attract and learn how Talroo can get you better candidates for less cash.
Joel: Or just go to ChadCheese.com and click on the Talroo logo. I'm all about the simple.
Chad: You are a simple man.
Announcer: Lost me precious. Lost me precious candidate to what's it so sweet precious. Lost.
Announcer: Like Shark Tank? Then you'll love Firing Squad. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to put the recruiting industries bravest, balliest, and baddest startups through the gauntlet to see if they got what it takes to make it out alive.
Announcer: Dig a foxhole and duck for cover, kids. The Chad and Cheese podcast is taking it to a whole other level.
Joel: All right, all right, all right. Guys, we got a treat today. It's the non-chat bot firing squad episode. I know everyone's kind of sick of that shit.
Chad: Geez.
Joel: Today, we have a much different business. I want to introduce then Venkat Janapareddy. Is that right? I totally butchered that. I'm just going to call you Big Cat for the rest of the show. Welcome and give us a quick bio on you.
Venkat: Thank you guys. Thank you for having me. My name is Venkat Janapareddy, founder and CEO of Jobiak. Jobiak is my third startup. Both my previous startups. which I founded had successful exits. My first one, XpertTech, a technology consulting and staffing company, which I ran for eight years, got acquired by a UK-based private equity firm. My second startup probably you might have heard, Gozaik, which was a social jobs platform for Twitter and Facebook was acquired by Monster World Wide a few years back.
Joel: Fantastic. Thanks for being here. That was concise and we love concise. Chad, give him the rules of the show and we'll let him pitch.
Chad: All right, Venkat. You're going to have two minutes to pitch Jobiak. At the end of the two minutes, you will hear the bell-
Joel: Hold on, hold on, hold on. I need a bigger screen for ... For the soundboard.
Chad: That sounds like a personal problem. Then Joel and I will hit you with rapid
fire Q&A. If your answers aren't concise, you're going to hear some crickets.
Chad: You need to tighten up your game and move it along.
Joel: I think Big Kats got to go. I don't think we're gonna have crickets today.
Chad: At the end of Q&A, you're going to get graded by both of us. You're either going to receive big applause ... You killed it, great job.
Chad: You're on your way, but there's good amount of work to be done. Or what you don't want to hear is the fire squad.
Chad: That it's probably time to pack your shit up and go home. So that's firing squad Venkat. Are you ready?
Venkat: I am ready.
Chad: All right, Joel. Get her going.
Joel: All right man, two minutes starting ...
Venkat: Great. Jobiak is an AI-based recruitment marketing platform for Google for Jobs. For those who don't know, last summer, Google launched their own job search engine called Google for Jobs. Just to give you some stats, 70% of job seekers started job searches on Google today, which is roughly about 150 to 200 million job searches a month. But to get your jobs on Google, employers that are required to add certain code to the web pages. This process can take several weeks just to get started. That's why 80% of employers are still struggling to get their jobs on Google for Jobs platform.
Venkat: At Jobiak, we made this process radically simple. Using our platform, employers can now publish their jobs without having to write a single piece of code. Jobiak is very easy to use. It's a simple three step process. Using our platform, it takes about two minutes to get your jobs and Google for Jobs. We are the first to machine learning platform that can read any job web page from any site in any language and predict Google job schema tags with a 90% success rate.
Venkat: To achieve this, for the past nine months, we have hired 60 plus engineers across the globe, trained over a million jobs, and developed 27 different machine learning models. We launched our public beta four weeks back. We are having an extraordinary level of interest from employers and industry leaders. And we are super excited about it.
Joel: And we can learn more about you where? I always have to do this.
Venkat: Yeah, check us out at Jobiak.ai. We do have a free plan where you can publish three jobs for free and get your jobs on Google for Jobs.
Joel: And that's J-O-B-I-A-K, correct? [crosstalk 00:06:09]. Gotta spell this thing for people. All right. That's two minutes, man. Chad, get them.
Chad: Whoo, okay. So the whole premise is Google for Jobs is out there. Your jobs are not on Google for Jobs. And we're going to help you get your jobs on Google for Jobs. Is it just that laser focused? Or is there more to be had here?
Venkat: They're two important points. One, first to get your jobs on Google for Jobs, that's part of our MVP. The next version, which we are releasing in December, it's going to focus on optimization of your job posting. It's okay to get your jobs on Google for Jobs, but you do want to get better visibility. So we have two goals. First, get your jobs on Google for Jobs and help you get better visibility in front of job seekers.
Chad: Okay, so here's some questions. We're gonna die deep into the optimization because a lot of the optimization that we hear about with SEO and whatnot's bullshit. So how are you going to help them optimize?
Venkat: Well, let me start with how I started Jobiak. First, you know, lots of my friends and colleagues have asked me what is Google for Jobs? What do we have to do to get my jobs on Google? So we scraped a million jobs from Google to find out who's really using Google for Jobs. Turns out 80% of them are from job boards and job aggregators and LinkedIn, especially in LinkedIn is 20%, Glassdoor 15, and ZipRecruiter 11%.
Venkat: So we took that data. Now, we are scraping additional 1 million more jobs. And we are going to look at Google jobs schema has nine different fields, as you can see on Google for Jobs. One is description, location, title, salary. We're going to look at all these and building a new machine learning model to figure out how Google is ranking when a candidate searches for jobs.
Venkat: And depending on the type of job title, it depends a lot on type of job title you're using, the job description and the location. And we're building a machine learning model to figure out okay, if you have a jobs here from Indianapolis, a developer job, we are going to train a ton of jobs from Indianapolis with that title and city and see how the ranking happens on Google.
Venkat: So with this technology, again, we are not going to guarantee that your jobs are going to appear on the fast page, but at least we can tell them "Listen, at least change the job title, or use this job description." We recommend people who have used certain titles and certain job descriptions, similar job titles have had success. Maybe try this.
Chad: Well, there are certain pieces of information that you have no control over, like salary. It's a great one because most companies in the US don't actually put salary or a range of salary on their jobs. And Google has said that they will provide more weighting for jobs that have more information. How are you going to be able to provide that kind of optimization?
Venkat: Good question. So when we looked at this million jobs, almost 90% of them had no salary. And Google does say that if you put in salary, you have a better chance. So using our flat form, even if you don't have salary on your actual job posting, our platform allows you to enter your salary, so that we can pass that information back to Google Index API. So we recommend that employees enter salary using a flat form. It doesn't necessarily have to be on the actual job posting. But we are passing that information back to Google Index API, so you have a better chance of appearing on the top.
Chad: So it's manual. You have to actually manually add that into your form to be able to provide additional weighting to those jobs go into Google for Jobs?
Venkat: It is for now, yes.
Chad: Okay.
Joel: I wanna step back a little bit. The number you quoted, 73% of job searches start at Google, where are you getting that number from? Because obviously, it's high and we've talked about that, and people quote it all the time. But, I mean, there's email, there's social media, there's going directly to a company's website. Like, is there really like a definitive number? And if so, where did you get that number 73%?
Venkat: We got this from CIO magazine from IDC. That's where we got the number from. And as you said, we have also seen on many different websites, but CIO IDC's pretty prominent. So that's where we got the number from.
Joel: Okay. And my second question here, SEO side, I got some questions on that. But for the company that just says "Man, I mean, ZipRecruiter is on Google for Jobs, LinkedIn is there. Why do I need something when I could just post my job on my job board of choice?
Venkat: So first of all, job boards are expensive. Right now, ZipRecruiter the first three jobs they charge you about $249, LinkedIn is lot more expensive than ZipRecruiter. With our platform, first of all, you can get three jobs for free. No charge. If you have more than three jobs, if you have six, we have a pro plan where you can have six active jobs just for $15 a month.
Venkat: This is like SEO. You don't pay a lot of money to get your web pages on Google. We are SEO for jobs. So we are much, much cheaper. You don't have to post ... And then our ultimate goal is you want job seekers coming from Google to your career site. Their plan is to take place on your career site, not on some job board. And that's our main proposition. Get your jobs back on career site. Let Google drive the traffic from there to your career site. And we are much, much cheaper than the job boards.
Chad: So are you building a job board, kind of like get rid of your middleman. You don't need Indeed when the search starts, 73% of the time, the search starts on Google. You don't need that dumb Indeed. You just need us to be able to push them directly to you and not use a middleman. Is that what I'm hearing?
Venkat: Exactly. We are not a job board. We are a recruitment marketing platform. We help employers get candidates to their career site from Google. We also have advanced analytics where we can tell the entire journey of a job seeker. Careersite "That's a feature we have in our Business Edition". And our goal is, again, we are not a job board. We are SEO for jobs. We are a recruitment marketing platform.
Chad: That's a great answer.
Joel: Venkat, when I'm a job seeker and I see postings from you or optimized postings from you, will I see the company name or will I see Jobiak? Like what will I actually see as a user in searching for jobs?
Venkat: So we have four different pricing plans. The first two the free and pro, which only takes less than a minute to get your jobs on Google. You do see apply on the company name, but there is an additional landing page at Jobiak. But it does not have any advertisement or ads or anything like that. From there, when you click on apply, then go to the career site. But our business plan and enterprise plan, which is what we highly recommend, it goes straight from Google to your career site where the job seeker only has direct apply from Google to career site.
Chad: So what's the landing page for? I mean, why do you even need a landing page in the first place, other than to have another echelon of pricing model?
Venkat: Good question. So right now, we are working with Google. There is a new piece of technology Google introduced called Google Index API. Just got introduced three months back. With this, we are trying to find out whether we can stop this one additional step Google Index API requires. Hopefully, we get this resolved in a couple of weeks. If that happens, then we'll be able to have everyone go from Google to straight to the career sites.
Chad: You're pushing something that many other organizations who've been around for a very long time are actually pushing as well. So I mean, even iCIMS customers. If you want your jobs, and that's the applicant tracking system, that's where the job actually originates.
Chad: You can have iCIMS go ahead and mark your jobs up because they're working incredibly close with Google right now with all the different API's, whether it's Job Search API, or even the Candidate Search API. So what's the long term for a company like yours when an iCIMS or Broadbeam or a job distribution organization who has pretty great revenue streams already, this sounds like a pretty quick hurry up and acquire me kind of organization?
Joel: Right. Future versus product.
Venkat: Right. So first of all, most employers, almost 60% of employers don't have an applicant tracking system. iCIMS is an applicant tracking system. So they're pretty expensive. You have to pay at least $3,000 a month to get started on iCIMS. So, if you are a midsize and a small size employer and you don't want to use applicant tracking system, ours is a great platform.
Venkat: Second, in iCIMS, you have to enter job each one repeatedly, whereas in our case, you only tell us one job and then show us the location of your remaining jobs on your career side, we automatically use our machine learning model and pick up all the jobs and push it to Google.
Venkat: So if you have any ATS, again, half of the applicant tracking systems don't have this Google for Jobs technology enabled. We are actually getting a ton of calls from the top tier applicant tracking systems who have three to 4,000 jobs, and they want to push their jobs to Google. So if you have an ATS like an iCIMS, if you're already using and they have Google for Jobs enabled, that's not our target. Our target is employers who are not using ATS and also ATS do not have this Google for Jobs technology enabled.
Joel: So what is the ideal customer for you look like? Is it the 60% that don't have an ATS, the smaller businesses? And is there a fear that those companies will eventually gravitate toward Hire by Google or LinkedIn where there is the upload directly into Google search?
Venkat: Yeah, our ideal customer is mid-size. That's what we are targeting, the class of mid sized companies who do not use ATS, or even like at ATSs who have a greenhouse and never ... Not all of them are supporting all their jobs to push it to Google. So our goal is to attract mid size.
Venkat: But surprisingly, we are getting a ton of calls from large scale employers who have more than two dozen jobs. And they want us to push their jobs because we didn't really expect this large scale enterprise companies coming to us. But we already received 50 plus inbound calls where they wanted us to push all the jobs.
Joel: Is it because their ATSs are failing to do that?
Venkat: That's almost, as I said before, 50% of them don't have this Google for Jobs technology enable, like Brass Ring, Bamboo HR, they don't have this technology. And all their employers want their jobs on Google for Jobs and they're looking for a company like us.
Chad: Like you. I mean, you're really going to see that to be standard. And that's pretty quick. I mean, you can get a team on that and have those markups, at least what we've seen from some of the applicant tracking systems, have that up and running pretty quick. So don't you see on the enterprise side, this is going to be a standard issue feature for all the applicant tracking systems out there?
Venkat: It is true, but it's been what? 18 months. Applicant tracking systems are still struggling. We did get lot of calls from ATSs who they want to partner with us. Not quite sure, but this new Google Index API, if you don't have a partnership with Google, your limit is only 200 jobs. That's the reason some of these jobs you're getting from applicant tracking systems, you see on Google for Jobs is only limited.
Venkat: Unless you have a partnership, you're not going to be able to push more than 200 jobs, whereas those who have partnerships, companies like us, we are able to push close to 160,000 jobs a day. So yeah, it's been 18 months. It's surprising to see that some of these ATSs have not caught up.
Chad: I would believe just from the competitive landscape, that's going to happen pretty quickly, as some of these bigger names start to, and again, as we talk about iCIMS and they were like one of the first out of the gate. So let's take a look at the actual mid-sized market, which is your target market. That's not an easy market to penetrate. How do you actually foresee going out and trying to penetrate that market?
Venkat: Good question. So we have a go to market strategy, which we already know. List of all the employers in the US who are midsize employers whose jobs are not appearing on Google for Jobs. We have a tool that can tell for any given employer whether their jobs are not on Google. So we are planning to run several LinkedIn campaigns, direct emails.
Venkat: Our goal is again, Google is going to do a lot of the selling for us and it's a slow start for Google for Jobs. But pretty soon, it's going to pick it up and more and more employers are getting to know Google for Jobs, and they're all looking for a solution.
Venkat: So we're counting on this viral effect. But we do have a GTM strategy right now, where we have ton of employers we already know whose jobs are not on Google. We are looking to run several campaigns and direct email, and then also in house sales to directly contact those guys to get their jobs.
Joel: Venkat, do have a sense for how important it is that a candidate or job seeker gets from clicking the initial link to actually applying, how quickly that happens? And what that means to rankings and SEO? Because one of the things I see as a hurdle for your business is you may be able to get the candidate or the job seeker to the job quickly.
Joel: But if the actual ATS experience is sucky, which it generally is, and they leave the site and go to a Zip Recruiter or another job site, does that inevitably hurt you, even though it's not your fault?
Venkat: Yeah, that's a big problem, this supply optimization. That's one of our roadmaps right now. We are working on it. Right now, we don't really have a clear solution what happens when the candidate lands on career site, but we do have this advanced analytics where we are the only ones we can track the entire job seekers journey.
Venkat: So we can tell whether the candidate clicked on other than apply for us is whether they clicked on any products at home base, or any other links. But if he leaves abruptly, we don't really have a solution right now. But that's something we have on our roadmap to optimize the apply process.
Joel: Right. And you talked about a version 2.0, I guess, of your service, which is actually helping companies optimize their job postings better. What exactly does that look like? Is that sort of face to face consulting? Is that sort of a text-eo, you know, you look at the job posting and sort of highlight ways that they could make it better? What exactly does the second generation of your product look like?
Venkat: That's great. I mean, I'm glad you mentioned Texture. And it's very similar to Texture. But except Texture takes a lot of time. If you have a job posting, you have to spend good 30 to 40 minutes to make it a better job posting. In our case, an employer comes to us, they give us a job posting.
Venkat: Using our advanced machine learning, we're going to tell them your score is a 30 out of 100, But, we recommend these are the job titles, these are different job description templates. We don't want employers to be really spending a lot of time changing the job descriptions. We want them to pick one that makes sense. So that it's fast and easy.
Venkat: So our goal is to provide several templates for job title. It comes down to job title and job description, especially the job description. We plan to give few templates based on our machine learning, what we have seen out of this million jobs. And they can pick and choose and customize it quickly, so that they don't have to spend more than five minutes to optimize their job posting so that they have a better experience on Google.
Chad: I love that. The only problem, once again, it comes back down to user experience, right? And the candidate experience because they're going to get this wonderful, fluffy, better, Textio type of job description before they actually get the applicant tracking system where they apply. And they see this train wreck, right? So that's one of the hardest things for me is being a middle man, which is again, this is really one of the functions that you're providing, and being able to provide more information to Google and better information to the candidate.
Chad: The end experience is really what matters. So when a candidate hits the actual corporate career site, they see that job or they see the experience and it sucks. They're going to reject and when they eject, that's going to count against that that career site, which means they're going to have even worse search engine results, right?
Venkat: No, I agree. I know that's a big problem right now in terms of the apply process. We are talking to companies like RolePoint and Jibe. Hopefully, we'll have something in place. But if they don't have a good apply process, right now that that is a problem. But our focus right now is to get jobs. Significant number of jobs are not on Google for Jobs. So our initial MVP focus is, you know, disrupt this market, get as many jobs as possible, and then work on apply process.
Joel: Could this product work for other vertical search engines, such as Indeed? Is that something on the roadmap or no?
Venkat: Yes. Microsoft recently announced they are now pulling jobs from LinkedIn on Bing. Now they have, what? 15% of the search market. We are hoping they will do something similar to Google for Jobs. If they do, we'll be the first one using our ML technology. It will be the same tech, we'll be able to push those jobs to Bing as well.
Venkat: Indeed, actually, you know, as of next year, they are no longer going to support staffing jobs, three postings from staffing companies. So we're going to tap into that as well. That's a good thing for Jobiak as well as Google for Jobs. They're all looking for solution.
Chad: Nice. I love that target. That's nice. Okay, so we're taking a look at, again, trying to penetrate the market because that's the biggest key. The biggest key is adoption and trying to get those companies to start using the product, and obviously paying for the product. Are you partnering with any organizations that are out there? Any other types of middleman? Any agencies? Or is this a we're going to go it alone because we believe the best strategy for us?
Venkat: Absolutely. We are already talking to some of the top recruitment marketing agencies. And they want us to do a couple of pilots. Interestingly, they want us to pilot companies which have two to 3,000 jobs, which we really didn't expect. And we are talking to some applicant tracking systems. We did get some calls where they want us to partner, directly push some of the jobs.
Venkat: So our goal is to partner with some of the applicant tracking systems, as well as the recruitment marketing agencies. We are not looking to partner any tier two job boards. Again, lot of inbound calls from tier two job boards where they want to use our tech to push their jobs. But that's not something we're looking to do.
Chad: Gotcha. Gotcha. So when it comes to ... I mean, you've got a good track record on the acquisition side of the house. What's the timetable on acquisition because this looks like it could be a pretty tight time table?
Venkat: Yeah, we are not really looking to sell the company. Our goal is get at least 50,000 subscriptions by end of next year. We have no competition, to be honest. And we want to disrupt, dominate, and take as much market as possible. And we'll see what happens end of next year.
Joel: Well, dominating takes money. Tell me about the plans for raising. Have you raised some money already? And what's your pricing breakdown? You mentioned free for three jobs, but how does that sort of segment up the chain?
Venkat: Yeah, right now, I am funding it. I'll continue to fund. Funding is not an issue,
but if it's required, we are looking to launch in UK and India and couple of Spanish countries. At some point middle of next year, we are looking to raise some money. But right now, I'll continue to fund. That's not an issue. But from a pricing point, we do have free plan. Three jobs you can push any time.
Venkat: But the pro plan is about six jobs active any given time, that's $15 a month. And the next one, business version, that's $99 per month, 25 active jobs. The business plan also has integrations with 11 applicant tracking system right now. We can pull jobs directly from those ATSs and push it to Google. And then, we have enterprise plan where we support up to 10,000 active jobs. The price depends on the number of jobs you have.
Chad: Sweet.
Joel: All right. We're done with the Q&A. And we'll go on to the grading portion. I'm gonna go first. And I'm gonna take people back in time a little bit to the days where jobs ... Yeah, yeah. The Wayne's World ... You know, I remember when Jobs2Web was putting out optimized job postings. This was before Google for Jobs. This was sort of the traditional web search that you saw on Google. And a lot of the same questions came up. You know, why can't a company do this on their own? Why won't ATSs do this on their own? You know, make the URLs nice, make everything findable, XML feeds, title tags, et cetera.
Joel: And eventually, most at ATSs caught up and did that. Just like they caught up on mobile and other things. So SEO was more or less a feature that the ATSs and job boards eventually caught up to doing. I think that this is very similar. I think that Google is a proven entity for job search. No one thinks of it as a nice to have. They're starting to think of it as a must have. And as we see numbers out of ATSs and job boards saying that Google for Jobs is taken 30% of Indeed's traffic, that that's a huge number. And clearly Google for Jobs is impacting in a positive way job seekers going to the right place.
Joel: And ultimately, I think that companies will want them to go to their site. So they're going to push ATSs to do this. Now Jobs2Web sold to SAP for, I believe, $100 plus million. So they won in that scenario. They got rich and cashed out. I think that your domination, and we're not looking to sell and all that stuff, sounds really nice. But I think that it will behoove any ATS of stature to not look at you guys and say "We're behind on the ATS SEO optimization portion. We need to get on board as soon as possible." And backup the Brinks truck to your office and make you guys a deal that you can't refuse.
Joel: So from that perspective, I think we're working with some real concrete benefits for customers. I agree with you that ATSs are going to be behind. A lot of companies don't get this. So I think it opens up a whole new market for a lot of ATSs that may want to get into the SMB space. So for those reasons, this definitely gets from me, and I'm a Google nerd.
Joel: That's applause. We'll be talking to you in three to five years about your next startup because you will dump this in the next 12 to 18 months I predict.
Venkat: Okay. Thank you.
Joel: Chad, you're up.
Chad: Excellent. So Venkat, I have to say that your pitch is spot on. There's no question. When you're talking about job boards and the Zip Recruiters and not going to a middleman, right? Not trying to go to a middleman. Going directly to the source, which is Google. I love that. That's awesome, being able to offer free pilots and all those things. I think that's incredibly necessary when you're starting something up that nobody's ever had a taste of before.
Chad: So I think that is a main thing. I do think there's no question, this is a very short timeframe. The timetable for you, as Joel just said, to be able to get this turned over is going to be 12, I think 18 months is on the outside. Because if you stay in the same vein, it's really a one trick pony.
Chad: And to say you have no competition is not the case. Maybe not direct competition. But when iCIMS is already sending jobs there, and you know, all the other big companies are going to start doing the same thing. You've got Hire by Google. And then all the other small applicant tracking systems, which are pretty cheap. About 80 bucks a month, like a JazzHR. The competition, it's going to happen quickly, right?
Chad: So you're going to have to obviously get a quick turn on this. So various competition. And they're also the SmashFly's of the world and the Phenom's of the world. And again, everybody understands the power of Google. So you're incredibly smart getting out in front of this. If you can get rid of this in 12 months, I would say I will give you a big applause then. But right now, it's going to be a golf clap.
Joel: Tough crowd.
Venkat: Thank you guys. I appreciate the feedback.
Joel: But no guns for you, so you made it out alive. How do you feel?
Venkat: Very good. Very good. That's really good feedback. Appreciate that.
Chad: I'm sure it's part of your roadmap already. You've had a couple of successful exits already. So good luck, man.
Joel: Good for you. All right, before we leave one last time, where can our listeners find out more about you?
Venkat: Check us out at Jobiak.ai. As I mentioned, we do have a free plan where you can publish three jobs for free. So get your first three jobs on Google for Jobs and see what this amazing tool can do for you.
Chad: Always be closing, baby. Good job. We out.
Joel: We out.
Venkat: Thank you guys.
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