CandidateID is WAKING THE DEAD in your ATS resume database and then nurturing those newly awaken candidates with engagement and scoring. Companies like Crowded (Firing Squad alumni), Lever and ConveyIQ are getting noticed for taking the best strategies in marketing and bringing them to recruitment. Will CandidateID be the newest name in this strategic category?
Candidate.ID is taking on this challenge to solve the problem of keeping candidates engaged and warm when a new opportunity arises instead of starting all over again to attract new talent.
The Chad and Cheese put the company's CEO and co-founder Adam Gordon through the wringer to see if his company has the mettle to thrive in this new, competitive landscape.
Will he get the gun? Gotta listen to find out.
And be sure to checkout, exclusive sponsor of the show. Jobs2Careers.com - Jobs 2 Awesome is more like it!
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Announcer: Like Shark Tank, then you'll love Firing Squad. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman here to put the recruiting industry's bravest, ballsiest and baddest start-ups through the gauntlet to see if they got what it takes to make it out alive. Dig a foxhole and duck for cover, kids. The Chad and Cheese Podcast is taking it to a whole other level.
Joel: What's up, kids? Joel Cheeseman here of the Chad and Cheese Podcast. Welcome to Firing Squad. In our long tradition of having people with much better accents and probably a lot smarter than us, today we're going to be talking to Adam Gordon from Glasgow, Scotland, from CandidateID. Adam, how are you?
Adam: Great. Thank you very much for having me on the show.
Joel: Assuming your at happy hour at this hour in Glasgow, so have a drink or two on us. The show's a lot better if you're a little bit tipsy, I promise.
Chad: Seriously, when is happy hour in Dublin? Isn't it like a 24 hour clock?
Adam: It is, it is. Glasgow is better though. There are pubs, which are open 24 hours.
Joel: So Chad and I are going to Dublin, which I assume you've been?
Adam: Yes.
Joel: Any recommendations for us on beer or pubs?
Adam: Anywhere in Temple Park. That's where you want to be. That's the very center of Dublin. For the live music and cool people.
Chad: Excellent.
Joel: That's all you've got? A city as big as Dublin and you give us one pub?
Adam: No, no, no. The area, the whole area is called Temple Park. And once a little known fact, Guinness is great but look out of Beamish. Beamish is bad-ass.
Chad: There we go.
Joel: That's what I'm looking for.
Chad: Yes. Beamish.
Joel: Thank you. And the show is over. Thank you very much.
Chad: Okay, Joel. Before get into Firing Squad, I have one quick question.
Joel: Yeah?
Chad: Would you say that most companies find it hard to attract the right candidates to apply for their jobs?
Joel: Well, Jobs2Careers certainly thought so. That's why they created their new talent attraction platform, ODT. Yeah, you know me.
Chad: Dude, that's OPP. This is ODT, which stands for On Demand Talent, where data driven talent attraction is made easy. The On Demand Talent platform enables recruiters to reach the right talent at the right time at the right price.
Joel: And the best part?
Chad: What?
Joel: You only pay for what Jobs2Careers delivers.
Chad: No.
Joel: So if you're attracting the wrong candidates or you feel like you're on a recruiting hamster wheel, just go to go.j2c.com/cc and learn how On Demand Talent or ODT, yeah you know me, can get you better candidates for less money.
Chad: I'd say you just got chadcheese.com. Click on the Jobs2Careers logo there and it's just that simple.
Joel: It is simple. Arm me with harmony.
Chad: It's showtime.
Joel: Chad, why don't you read the listeners the rules of the Firing Squad?
Chad: Okay, for all those listeners who haven't heard a Firing Squad, shame on you, first and foremost. But, here we go. Okay, Adam. You will have two minutes to pitch CandidateID. At the end of the two minutes, you will hear this bell. Then Joel and I are going to hit you with some rapid fire Q&A. If your answers aren't concise, Joel's going to hit you with bell or he he's going to hit you with the crickets. That just mean you need to tighten up your game and we need to get some quick and easy answers out of you. At the end of Q&A, you'll either have big applause, which means you kicked ass, a golf clap, means that you got some work to do And the last but not least, you don't want to face the Firing Squad. That means your shit is bad and it needs to go back to the drawing board. So that's Firing Squad. It's time to buckle up and pitch. Okay, Joel, start that pitch timer.
Joel: Adam, are you ready?
Adam: I'm ready.
Joel: Here we go.
Adam: So when I started in recruitment in 1999, candidates couldn't access much information about opportunities or employers. So they needed to talk to recruiters to guide them through the education and consideration phases of their decision-making. Today, we have an abundance of information online. Candidates can become aware of an employer through an advert or a LinkedIn post. They can educate on a career site and they can more deeply consider, by reviewing the hiring manager's Facebook page, the company's Glassdoor reviews, and they can practically taste the coffee served, that's an employer, before deciding whether or not to talk to the recruiter. So, candidates are in control and they're making themselves invisible. Meanwhile, talent acquisition teams are being told to find and hire everyone in record time, but 80% of the total addressable market according to LinkedIn are not interest. So how do employers adapt? CandidateID is a talent pipeline software for the age of the candidate. It allows employers to distribute content to potential candidates, multi-channel, multi-format, and it tracks and scores their interactions on email, text message, social media, landing pages, career sites, and more.
Adam: Unlike CRM, CandidateID was built as a system of engagement so the two main benefits are that recruiters can reduce time to short list by 60% because they can filter their candidates according to the engagement score. Recruitment marketers can serve up a personalized, nurtured experience at scale and much better measure the effectiveness of all their brilliant work.
Chad: Damn. That was tight.
Joel: All right. You had 20 seconds left. But, yeah, well done. At first I thought you had someone there with a stopwatch because you kind of sped up at the end and I kind of thought someone was saying, "Go, go, go."
Adam: No, I thought I was going to get crickets.
Chad: No.
Joel: No, no, no, you never get crickets on the first two minutes. The crickets will come when you start droning on about whatever later in the show, probably.
Chad: Yeah.
Joel: You might be tight. You're a Scotsman, so it might be clean. I'll start with the first question. I'm always interested, Adam, why this idea? What was the catalyst for it? Do you have a background in recruiting or not? Give me some of the genesis of all this.
Adam: So yeah, I started in recruitment in 1999. I started a research and sourcing business in 2009. In 2015, I was asking some of my teams, "What are we working on?" And we were working with a big buyer tech company. And I said, "What are you doing for them?" And she said, "We're trying to find sales people and scientists for them in Western Europe." I said, "Have we not been doing that for the last two years?" I mean, if we don't find everybody, what about the people we found six months ago and the people we found 12 months ago? It turned out that employer was simply making contact with all those people at the point we were finding them but then never going back to them three months later or six months later or nine months later.
Adam: So we were always looking for net new and topping up the pipeline. What occurred to me was talent acquisition teams are always doing that. They got a dependency on what I call, an addiction to what I call the dependency triplets, which are recruitment agencies, job boards, and social media. They're constantly topping up the pipeline. They don't need to be doing that because most of them, many international employers have millions of people in their ATS. One big American pharmaceutical company told me 70% of the people we hire are already on the ATS. When we go to onboard them, they were already on the ATS. Most of them we are finding through employee referral, through direct sourcing, and through advertising. What a complete waste of time and money.
Adam: I've got a background that includes recruitment, but also sales and marketing. We have, between myself and my co-founder Scot McCrae, who's a recruitment technology guy, we just realized there's certain types of technology in sales and marketing which would work so well to solve this problem. So products like Pardot and Marketo and Infusion Soft and Sales Fusion act on. Those kind of marketing automation products are designed to give sales team warm leads. A constant stream of warm leads. So they know which prospects not to pick up the phone to and which prospects to pick up the phone to today because the people have been looking at the company's pricing page and their products spec and all that sort of stuff. So the sales person phones up the prospect and the prospect goes, "Well, that's a coincidence because I was just looking at your pricing page yesterday." And the recruit, the sales person is like, "Well, yeah, I know that because I've been stalking you online." But basically, that's exactly how it works and it's precisely the same as we ... You know, the way we go about buying products and services or other high-consideration things like a house or a car or a wife, is exactly the same way we go about making career decisions. So the parallel is just identical and that's where we came up for the idea for CandidateID.
Chad: Here's the thing, Adam. Here's the thing. We're talking about many different silos that are kind of blended together very nicely. But the thing that your whole ... I've read the Wake the Dead white paper that you guys pulled together. I don't believe you guys have enough emphasis on that. You're 100% right. The money that's being spent, we'll go over that here in a few minutes, is huge on the job sites, media, referrals, so on and so forth. But a big question for you. Do you know the percentage of candidates that are hired from the applicant tracking system resume database through your current clients? What is that current percentage.
Adam: At the point where a customer becomes a CandidateID user, it may well be that the percentage is zero. They're not hiring anybody because their applicant tracking system is just not searchable. And even if it is searchable. Let's say a company's a pharmaceutical business, has regulatory affairs manager and they're looking for somebody in London. They'll go onto their ATS. They'll filter regulatory affairs managers, bring up 2000. Who do they pick up the phone to? Do they do it A-Z? Do they send them all one email. Which, it's kind of spammy for most people because they're not in the market. So, the answer is zero percent. We've got a couple of customers who are a year down the line with CandidateID, because we only launched in January 2017.
Adam: I haven't gotten any data for them around what proportion they're now able to say their hiring from their own database. But what I can say is that they're getting to shortlist 60% faster. And they're getting to shortlist 60% faster because they're not picking up the phone to people and cold calling them without knowing whether they might be interested or not. Because they're able to track exactly what are they looking at. That gives them the insight that tells them who to pick up the phone to. Who are the hot leads today, in real time? So I've got to be honest, I can't answer that exact question. But what I can tell you is that the 60% reduction in time to shortlist is the big thing that our customers are highlighting as the main benefit they're getting from CandidateID.
Chad: Got you. So, job sites, media, and referrals are the top three, but what companies are doing is they're really just sending the same people back into their applicant track. Are they buying those candidates over and over and over, without using their applicant tracking?
Adam: That's it. I mean, that's it. That's exactly what they're doing. I said last year a couple of times that I think recruiters are addicted to heroin and some people didn't like that analogy. So I no longer say that. They're addicted to job boards, social media, employee referral. And they're addicted to anything else which will help them find a whole lot of net new talent. But that net new talent's probably already on the ATS. Our mission is for an employer's database to become the first place that they go and that they're able to get to short list by using their own database. It's the exception that they need to go and do other things.
Chad: Well, tell us, real quick, tell us how the Wake the Dead process actually works within an applicant tracking system. Because I think most companies would be incredibly interested in understanding how they can take this graveyard of candidates and turn them into live, walking, engaged candidates. How does that process start? How do you start with it and how do you keep them engaged? How do you nurture them?
Adam: We love this, we love this sort of Waking the Dead analogy because recruiters are always talking about, "My database is dead. The information in it's all stale. I can't really use it, even if I can search it." So the concept of waking the dead is taking all of that stale data and running it through CandidateID for an initial probably six week kind of nurture period. By the end of which, you're going to know which email addresses are dead, which candidate records should be taken off the system. You can do some progressive profiling with people to find out more information about them by getting them to give you information. To access this white paper that will help you get ahead in your career, what's your current salary banding, or what's your likelihood of making a job move in the next six months.
Chad: So this information that you're sending to the candidates to keep them engaged, is that what I'm hearing? For actual company information that's already available on their website? What is this information that we're talking about?
Adam: No, not necessarily. And that's a really important point. Using CandidateID, you get to understand about individuals at scale. You get to understand which channels do they prefer, which content formats do they prefer, which content subjects do they prefer. And what we've got up to date is a situation where any organization that's doing candidate nurture, typically, they're just sending the same email to everybody. It's probably just job alerts. So that's not really nurture. What you need to be able to understand is, you need to be able to understand that Joel likes content about skills sent through email in a video format. Whereas, Chad like content about industry insights sent through WhatsApp and in an infographic format. If you can really get a sense of what does each individual prefer based on their behavior and you can track and score that behavior, then that's how you can really nurture people at scale and in the way that they prefer to receive that content. If you get that right, you're going to get more people coming through the funnel from being effectively cold right through to lining up outside your office-
Chad: Well, Joel likes chocolate cake, just so that you know. Go ahead, Joel.
Joel: Chocolate cake and naps. And by the way listeners, if you're hearing Adam's accent and the word heroin, I want to let you know this is not the Trainspotting podcast. This is still Chad and Cheese. Adam, there are a lot of competitors out there. Just ones that we've talked about on our show, ConveyIQ, Crowded, et cetera. I mean, to say that you're the HubSpot for recruiting, you mentioned Pardo and a few others that are marketing platforms. It's sort of becoming the norm. So how do you sell yourself differently from those guys and why would I pick you over those competitors?
Adam: So the reason that I don't use HubSpot is because HubSpot wasn't actually built as a marketing automation product. It was built as an inbound marketing product. That's a different thing. So something like [Clinch 00:16:55] would be more equivalent to HubSpot. And that's great for the real high volume areas like, I don't know, restaurant companies, hospitality companies, construction businesses, and those types of organizations. But the reason that I made the comparison with something like Pardo is because that's much, much more about the kind of nurture through the funnel, if you like. It's much more about the relationship building and the real, the technology that's really able to understand more about people. The ones that you mentioned, I'm not completely familiar with. But the organizations who claim to be able to do the same kinds of things. They call themselves recruitment marketing products or something like that. Really, they're CRM. They're recruitment CRM. CRM is a system of record. It's primary purpose is enabling internal workflow and storing information. Whereas CandidateID has been built as a system of engagement. It really is built just to do one specific thing and that is bring people through the funnel. It's not lika a half-ass bolt on, which is basically just an email ... a glorified Mail Chimp.
Adam: Now the big difference is, is what CandidateID is tracking is candidates' interactions across a whole load of different online assets that a recruitment CRM doesn't track. So recruitment CRM will track an email open and a link clink. And then it will track activity around a career site. What it's not able to track is does the person go to the hiring manager's Facebook page? Does the person go to the company's Glassdoor or the Muse or all sorts of other online assets. So CandidateID's tracking far, far wider than incumbent recruitment technologies. As a result, it's able to give a much, much deeper and richer insight into the individual so that you can score them. It's not a shallow score. It's much, much more-
Chad: Tell us what that score is. So the score's actually an engagement score. It's not a skills test, anything like that. Am I correct on that? It's an engagement score, how much they have engaged with certain content or they researched or what have you? Tell me a little bit more about the candidate scoring piece.
Adam: We believe it's very important to identify suitable candidates based on their motivation first and skill set second. If you identify people based on a skill set, 80% of those people you find are not in the market. They're not going to be responding to your LinkedIn message or your telephone call, because they're not ready for a conversation. If you can identify people based on their motivation to want to work for your organization first, then assess them according to fit, you're going to get to shortlist 60% faster. Now, of course, what you don't want to do is use CandidateID to nurture the plumber who applied for a job as an economist. Or the sales person who applied for a job as a scientist. They're not people that you want to be nurturing. What you want to do is bring in the total addressable market of people who you would be interested in interviewing now or in the future.
Adam: A simple example would be, I'm head of recruitment at KPMG. I want every single person working at PWC, Deloitte and EY in my system of engagement. I want to be nurturing all these people, tracking them, scoring them, so that I can see which of these people are going to be ready for a conversation about working with me at KPMG. That's utopia. Utopia is that you're tracking every single person that you might want to hire now or in the future. Based on who they work for and what their current job title is, that I believe is the first cut of is this person going to be somebody we should be nurturing. So then you then filter them according to their engagement score. You probably want to interview anybody that works for one of those organizations. Assessing people or finding people based on fit first is going to mean that 80% of your outreach is wasted. But you don't know which 80% it is because you don't know anything about the people. So assessing them according to what they're doing is absolutely logically the first thing to do.
Joel: Adam, if I'm looking at your website, and I am, I go to features and there's a whole lot of stuff you guys got going with branding and candidate experience. It sort of feels like throwing stuff up there just to have people check it off. But do you really believe those are core competencies of your product, employment branding?
Adam: We got very, very specific message for anybody that's in employer branding. And that is that we can help them to track the effectiveness of every single piece of content that they put out on the Net. Ever single Tweet that they put out. Because everything is tracking. And what that means is that they can get better and better and they can measure the effectiveness of their work or the n-th degree. They can really understand not just which channels are working best but they can understand which day of the week works best, what time of the day works best. They can make a cut according to different locations. They can cut it according to different skill sets. They can really, really cut up their talent nurture in a way the becomes highly versatilized. So for those kinds of people, it really helps them prove their worth and demonstrate ROI.
Joel: So from a branding standpoint, back to branding, we've been talking about engagement systems forever, whether they're quote, unquote "R and P's", whatever they might be. What you're saying is from the employment branding standpoint, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is a way to continue to engage them and then also better understand, really, the behavior and how the individual wants to see content from you? Is that what I'm hearing?
Adam: Well, we're living in a world where personalization becomes more and more important. So you go on to certain websites, like Amazon for example, and it's giving you a personalized page based on your history and what it knows about you. Using the same kind of techniques, CandidateID's able to understand what content formats, what content channels, what times of the days, days of the week, what subjects that you're interested in. And this is a really important one, what subjects you're interested in, because that will determine where you are in the pipeline. So if somebody is only interested in skills or interested in industry insights, they're not ready for a conversation. Whereas, if they're starting to look at your job descriptions and things like that, they are ready for a conversation. And one of the automated aspects of CandidateID is, if Joel starts looking at job descriptions, the intensity of what Joel gets from then on, it gets ... The communication gets more frequent and it's much more about, "We need to talk. Come in for a coffee and meet people in our organization. Come to our team pizza night." It's all about the intensity, the communication goes up.
Adam: Whereas if Joel is just looking at skills and that kind of thing, Joel will keep getting something once every ten days or so, but it's ... You're not a priority. So we want to keep you warm. And the key thing is, for the 80% of people who are not in the market, you need to make sure that you're not sending them job descriptions because that will piss them off. What you want to be sending them is things that will help them get ahead in their career. We know from the data from our clients' work on CandidateID that people want, even if they're not in the market, they want content which is useful, relevant, and will help them with their career.
Chad: Well, I think, Joel, they're already tracking you because Adam knew about team pizza night.
Adam: I knew about the chocolate. [crosstalk 00:25:51].
Joel: Bad joke, bad joke. Question about the future for you. I'm looking at your website again and the pricing page, it's in pounds, which is very Brexit. I like that. But are you looking to grow into other countries, adding more features, money raise, looking to raise more? Tell me me about the future of the company.
Adam: So first of all, the UK was never using the Euro as our currency so it's not a Brexit positioning statement in any way. So that's the first thing. The second thing is to convert that to US dollars, add on about 25% more and it's US dollars. About 40% of our customers are in London. About 40% of our customers are in the USA, and about 20% are in parts of Europe and parts of Asia-Pacific. So we're already serving the world. Our customer market is what we call F600, which means Fortune 500 plus FTSE 100, which is the UK stock market, top 100. So those 600 is our customer base plus international RP organizations. So we already work with four. We have self-funded the company to-date. Our customers have helps us to fund the business as well. They have, in certain cases, they have prepaid 12 months in advance to allow us to move our product roadmap forward and they've worked in consultation with us to help us do that. Or for us to include their wishes into what we're planning to do.
Adam: We're not going to be ... People have told us we need to become a CRM. We don't want to become a CRM. It's absolutely not the plan. That's what we call a red ocean and it's not something we want to be involved in. We absolutely, we will be raising investment. We're talking to three RPO companies today about investing in CandidateID. The only reason we're talking to them, because we can self-fund it, maybe not as fast as we would like to. So raising money is something that we need to do. But the main reason we're talking to RPO businesses is because these companies have got case studies. They've seen how it works for them. And quite honestly, the opportunity to receive 40 new customers at the same time as the investment is something that's incredible appealing.
Joel: Very nice. Any clients you can mention? Any name dropping?
Adam: Yeah, I could tell you we work with ... It was Quintels. It's called Iqvia, Fortune 500. We work with Mondelez, another Fortune 500. We work with Therma-Fisher Scientific, another Fortune 500. We work with Spec Savers, which is, it may be the world's number one optical retailer. It certainly is in Europe and Australia. We've got some ... It's pretty public. I can tell you one of the RPOs we work with is Cielo Talent. We've been up for some joint rewards with stuff we've done with them. And one of their clients called Dialog Semi Conductor.
Joel: Okay. That's good. That's good. I just wanted a few, not the whole portfolio.
Chad: Okay, so two quick questions. The first one is are you GDPR compliant, and for Joel, that's the General Data Protection Regulation. It's an EU thing. Are you GDPR compliant?
Joel: What's that? A baby crying?
Chad: Yes, he loves the baby crying. Are you GDPR compliant?
Joel: Can you say, "Get in my belly for me," just once?
Adam: I didn't say that.
Joel: You know Fat Bastard, right?
Chad: From Austin Powers?
Joel: Get in my belly. Sorry.
Adam: I do, I do, I do. Okay, so Nanny McPhee is that not Scottish as well. Sorry, Ms. Doubtfire. [crosstalk 00:30:10]. GDPR, okay, so you could use CandidateID to spam strangers, in which case it's not GDPR compliant. Or you could use it in a GDPR compliant way. So it just depends on the way that you use it.
Chad: Gotcha.
Adam: One of the important things about GDPR is a lot of organizations think you need to think of the regulations and say, you need to reach out to all your database and ask them to opt-in again. You absolutely don't. One financial services company I know did that recently, and they got an 8.5% opt-in rate because they asked that question. They've got to delete 91.5% of their database. That opt-out suicide.
Chad: Great answer, great answer. I love that answer because that is not a yes or no answer, but my last question is knowing that you have this engagement with RPO, why the hell hasn't an RPO company or an applicant tracking system bought you guys yet? I mean, seriously? Because the thing is RPOs are incredibly efficient. This seems like a very efficient way to utilize the candidates that they have in their huge databases, in their clients' databases. Not to mention, applicant tracking system's shit. They've got the worst search technology in the world, which is one of the reasons why recruiters don't search the database. This seems like a very smart move for an RPO or an applicant tracking system. What are you guys still doing on the market? Why aren't you bought yet?
Adam: Well, I think ... We've only been in the market since January last year. So we're pretty early stage. And I think we're down near the bottom of the top ten kind of hot issues right now. We keep coming up high. HR Tech World, we keep coming up high in one of their kind of most disruptive start-ups. But there's so many other things like onboarding and programmatic and AI related things, chat box and other recruitment technologies where there maybe is a cluster of organizations that are really creating bigger market penetration. At some point, of course, yeah, absolutely. If we continue to grow our reputation, grow our market position, and become successful, there will be other organizations that will be trying to do the same thing and some of those will probably look at those and think, "Actually, it's going to be cheaper for us to buy that than it is to build our own." But that's not what we're in the market for, so we'll have to wait and see how things pan out. But our current priority is to build, build, build and to be working with every one of the Fortune 500.
Chad: I see. Well, it's that time, Joel. Unless you have another question? Did we lose
Joel?
Adam: Is he putting the dog out again?
Joel: Sorry, sorry, sorry. I was talking but on mute. Yes. I am ready to put Adam in front of the Firing Squad and see how he does. I apologize for that gentlemen.
Adam: I'm going to shut my eyes.
Joel: Chad and I both love the whole black hole elimination strategy and taking candidates and keeping them fresh or bringing them back to life, which is popular these days in terms of saying it. So I like the general model. I like kind of where you guys are going with it. I'm not ... I think the competitive thing ... I don't want to say you danced around it, but I think you should have a better feel for the competitive landscape, be able to talk about how you're different than Crowded, how you're different than [Lever's 00:34:08] recent addition of sort of bringing back the dead from their candidate pool. I'd like to hear more just context around the branding piece. I heard sort of around how candidate branding is effected but not much around how you're helping a company build their brand and their employer brand. Like integrations and help with Glassdoor stuff. I'd like to see that in the future. I think you're off to a good start. Definitely not going to bring the guns out. But for me, I think you got some work to do to convince me that you are a stellar start up. But you're on the right track. And my grade at this point is ...
Chad: Oh, my favorites. Okay. So, Adam, here's the thing. And there's no question. Again, I'm going to be consistent with my conversation that we had with Crowded. The whole waking the dead piece is huge. That is incredibly strong and if you can demonstrate, which I believe you guys can, that you don't have to spend 55% on a job board or 36% on media or whatever it is, you can go back to your applicant tracking system first and use that as your primary weapon of going out and actually finding candidates. In addition to, and this is something even more new, is filling them out and starting to engage them, nurture them is obviously the term you guys use, that is amazing. Because it's not just about waking the dead, it's about keeping them engaged. And then in scoring them, to be able to know where they're at in the funnel. I also believe on the employment branding side of the house, there's no question. There's some tightening up on the message that you guys can definitely to. This is part and parcel to exactly what employment brand should actually be. It should be engagement. It should be the way that you treat your candidates. They shouldn't be in a black hole. They should be woken from the dead and guess what? They should be constantly hit with the types of content that they want, the way that they want it.
Chad: So that being said, yeah, there's definitely, you've got some work to do. But to be quite frank, the technology and everything that you guys are putting together there, I'm going with the big applause.
Chad: All the way through.
Joel: Hurray.
Adam: Hurray. I was thinking about clapping along with Joel's golf clap to just add a little bit more volume into the sound.
Chad: Yeah, adding your [crosstalk 00:37:05].
Joel: How do you feel, Adam? Do you feel okay about that? Do you feel like we ripped you off?
Adam: No, I feel okay about that. We have got more work to do, absolutely. We're constantly refining our positioning. We're getting better and better. I'm aware, we're certainly not the finished article and yeah, I'm actually very pleased with that feedback because it is giving me some good pointers on things that I need to work on.
Joel: Well, good deal. Thanks for you time. We appreciate it. We'll be watching and keep us updated. Chad, you got anything else? We're out.
Chad: We appreciate you being here, man. We're out.
Adam: Thank so much for having me.
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